[movie] Star Wars: The Last Jedi

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Comments

  • Purge
    Purge
    GT Member edited December 2017
    Jimmy, I didn't think there was hate.

    There are folks on here who see my name and assume things - I'm not really tied into their opinion of the world, though I can enjoy their perspective.

    I am not a person who wears outfits to movies. I don't rewatch movies often anymore. I'd say around the time of TPM I stopped being a "fan" per se. I became one again watching the stuff over with my son.

    And while I didn't enjoy Rogue One (other than the bot) I could appreciate it's tone and direction. I thoroughly enjoyed TFA, and Rey and Finn and Ben Solo were a fantastic offshoot. We lost 30 years. There's room to fill that in. Cool.

    This movie, for me, was worse than the Ewok pandering, the Meesa-tinkin and Han shoots first/last fiascos.
    It places the first order at the helm of the galaxy - something Palpatine spent a lifetime doing, in a few lines of text.

    A secret battlestation being blown up does not an empire fall. Killing Sidius and Darth Vader would certainly cause a collapse and create a vacuum of power. Thing is, there were 30 years under the banner of the Jedi and the Rebellion for them to establish freedom and, being the heroes and restorers of "good" that the infrastructure that someone like Snoke could step into should have been eradicated.

    And then, the Knights of Ren and the First Order don't really exist in this film - other than two generals and a handful of Star Destroyers. The fall of the rebellion never really happens in this - and pathetic chase scenes aside, it simply doesn't really jive.

    I don't hate the movie. I had a free ticket to see it a second time, and instead I decided to go to work.

    I'll watch it again - but in the end I don't think ...
    the treatment was anything but a disservice to Luke, Leia and all the good they said they were fighting for. It doesn't feel like anything was lost - that had already happened off-screen.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    The sarcastic comment was to the prequels from the director, but also from the character to the sacredness of Rey’s needs.

    The numbers do lie, by the way, there have been numerous articles about those rotten tomatoes audience scores being inflated by false accounts and hyper reactive fans.

    The review scores are very positive, and there are a number of people who think it to be a very good movie (with some admitted faults).
  • uxFOOL
    uxFOOL
    GT Manager
    Purge wrote: »
    The numbers don't lie - 52% on rotten tomatoes - lower than even The Hated Menace (most guides recommending the best viewing order tell you to skip it).

    Who the FUCK lends credence to viewer ratings on Rotten Tomatoes????

    Mike Dunn
    Executive Producer & Editor-at-Large
    GAMING TREND

  • Jimmy the Fish
    Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    Purge, you and I have very different takes on Star Wars. I loved Rogue One. Don’t really understand the hate for that movie either. And to me, saying Last Jedi is worse than Ewoks, Jar Jar and Han Shooting first (all George Lucas ideas to boot), well we’ll just agree to disagree. Jar Jar is the absolute worst thing in Star Wars lore in my opinion. It would take a lot for something else in the universe to displace that horrible character.
  • Purge
    Purge
    GT Member
    uxFOOL wrote: »
    Purge wrote: »
    The numbers don't lie - 52% on rotten tomatoes - lower than even The Hated Menace (most guides recommending the best viewing order tell you to skip it).

    Who the FUCK lends credence to viewer ratings on Rotten Tomatoes????

    Oh, I'm sorry. Did this not line up with your opinion of the movie? Because I "the FUCK" agree more with a mid-to-low grade review of the movie than the 90+% "professional reviewer" aggregate- but that just couldn't be the case.

    Further to that point- my opinions were not based on anything I'd read or seen about the trailer, or the movie leading up to it. I saw this movie on the Thursday night (second open screening in my city).

    This is the *single* thread on the internet where I've read anyone else's comments, and only discussed it with a handful of people.

    But geez, I'm sure I'm wrong in thinking the movie doesn't fall flat in places it should have succeeded.
  • Purge
    Purge
    GT Member
    Bullwinkle, as I stated before, I don't think the movie was terrible. I don't even care about the RT score (other than the fact that there is a significant difference) - and maybe a vocal few are screwing with the stats, but in my group of friends (of which there are some very avid SW lovers) it still came across with a serious level of disappointment - where The Force Awakens did NOT.

    It was not great. Neither was Guardians Vol 2. They are both movies that, for one reason or another, leave me wishing they had more time, better development or connected better.
  • Purge
    Purge
    GT Member edited December 2017
    The visuals were great, and I'm not holding against the movie the flaws of science vs. Star Wars physics (bombing runs, etc). I do, however feel like there was a big "how do we fill this plot hole? Oh, more Force putty!".

    I don't agree with everything in this review (below), and I'd say the movie, for me, is 3 /4 at most (2.5 being my gut feel.).

    Either way, here's a quote and a link from what I think is a fairer assessment.
    Given what I said about “The Force Awakens,” I really wanted to like this. It starts more promisingly, has its moments. Some innovations work, others make things worse.

    Intentions and inspiration aside, “Last Jedi” doesn’t add up to an “Empire Strikes Back” for this trilogy. There’s no romance, little pathos and no real punch-in-the-gut moment. Its emotionally sterile tone was set with “The Force Awakens,” and that’s proven hard to shake, new innovations and plot twists aside.

    “Last Jedi” is just another middling movie with a rabid fanbase, a Harry Potter-style placeholder picture for lump-in-the-throat moments to come. Or so we hope.

    One thing I should mention that a friend pointed out was that:
    Rey stole the books before the dead Yoda somehow hit the tree with lightning. There is a brief moment at the end in the ship where you see them stowed away (apparently).
  • Purge
    Purge
    GT Member edited December 2017
    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/

    -67% since last weekend - they're making money for sure and I'm not saying the movie is BAD.

    So make of this what you will. I saw TFA four times.

    Edited to add:

    I understand factors like Christmas celebrations may play into this. It is by no means a horrible number from a movie perspective.

    Maybe this is closer to apples-to-apples.
    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdowns/chart/?id=roguevforce.htm
  • farley2k
    farley2k
    GT Moderator
    This movie certainly has created more .... discussion... than previous ones.

    I liked it but I don't have a ton of emotional investment in the original trilogy.
  • uxFOOL
    uxFOOL
    GT Manager
    Purge wrote: »
    uxFOOL wrote: »
    Purge wrote: »
    The numbers don't lie - 52% on rotten tomatoes - lower than even The Hated Menace (most guides recommending the best viewing order tell you to skip it).

    Who the FUCK lends credence to viewer ratings on Rotten Tomatoes????

    Oh, I'm sorry. Did this not line up with your opinion of the movie? Because I "the FUCK" agree more with a mid-to-low grade review of the movie than the 90+% "professional reviewer" aggregate- but that just couldn't be the case.

    Further to that point- my opinions were not based on anything I'd read or seen about the trailer, or the movie leading up to it. I saw this movie on the Thursday night (second open screening in my city).

    This is the *single* thread on the internet where I've read anyone else's comments, and only discussed it with a handful of people.

    But geez, I'm sure I'm wrong in thinking the movie doesn't fall flat in places it should have succeeded.

    No, I said "who the fuck lends credence to viewer ratings on Rotten Tomatoes", something you held up as "numbers don't lie". User/viewer ratings are typically a cesspool and are frequently spammed by people who haven't even seen (or in the case of games) played the media. So yeah, I question anyone holding that metric up as proof of anything.

    Apparently you thought I was attacking your opinion of the movie. I was attacking your opinion on RT viewer ratings credibility. Big difference.

    Mike Dunn
    Executive Producer & Editor-at-Large
    GAMING TREND

  • Purge
    Purge
    GT Member
    We have a miscommunication then :).

    I showed RT as a gap comparison, not that RT reviews are accurate. I don't stand by this movie being a stinker.

    There are rumours of a "Lukes Adventures" animated series. I hope this is true.
  • Blackjack
    Blackjack
    GT Member edited December 2017
    On the lighter side...


    Wow, why is it so LARGE vertical? =)

    It doesn't seem to play here in the forums. You can try just putting in a separate browser tab. But I can't figure out a way to share a Tweet URL here because it always gets auto-embedded and isn't working here. :p

    I caught a nasty cold bug before Xmas and I may not end up being able to see Last Jedi more than the twice I have, which is slacking off for me. :s
  • uxFOOL
    uxFOOL
    GT Manager
    Blackjack wrote: »
    It doesn't seem to play here in the forums. You can try just putting in a separate browser tab. But I can't figure out a way to share a Tweet URL here because it always gets auto-embedded and isn't working here. :p

    Plays fine for me

    Mike Dunn
    Executive Producer & Editor-at-Large
    GAMING TREND

  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    For BJ, I don't know if you read my spoiler comment above on the Leia thing, but to reiterate:
    I didn't see the moment at all as something that she was prepared for or trained at, it felt very much like something that happened spontaneously as a final act of self preservation. Once she makes it back to the ship she immediately passes out and goes into a coma or whatever. It's a "Phoenix" like moment, and given that the "rules"
    for the Force have always been vague at best, it seemed perfectly in line with any of the other abilities people have shown. In fact I'd say it was a lesser power, since essentially it's just a (telekinetic) force bubble that's propelled by some minor force push thrust. I think part of the problem is that the way it was filmed she appears to sparkle and glow and maybe it looks too "magical" which perhaps people find offensive (or counter to the Force "rulebook") for some reason?

    Now for some more fun controversy. The more I think about it, the more I think this may very well be my new all-time favorite Star Wars movie. I love how there's a great mix of action, humor, memorable moments and surprises, coupled with some very subversive sub-text. I enjoyed pretty much everything about the movie. Plus most importantly the acting and dialog doesn't make me cringe the way the other two trilogies do.

    Here's a great article about the "subversiveness" if you are in the mood:

    https://bittergertrude.com/2017/12/20/this-is-not-going-to-go-the-way-you-think-the-last-jedi-is-subversive-af-and-i-am-here-for-it/

    Anyway, I've held Empire as my favorite for the past 35+ years, but the last time I saw parts of it, some of the scenes/dialog made me cringe. Even though in my head Harrison Ford is a great actor, hearing some of the lines again (particularly the romantic "banter") just made me cringe. In any case, I haven't done a back to back comparison but I'm afraid if I did, I might easily find The Last Jedi to be the superior film.

    That would make my order now be:

    TLJ
    Empire
    ANH
    TFA
    ROTJ
    (prequels in reverse order)

    Blasphemy???
  • EngineNo9
    EngineNo9
    GT Member
    I haven't read this whole thread to catch up on all the conflict, but I saw this last weekend and liked it. There were definitely some things I could nitpick, but overall it was pretty good.

    My least favorite things were probably that the tone of the humor just felt a bit off and forced (no pun intended).

    And of course the little puffin animal things were also forced into a bit too much of the movie, but I guess that's to be expected these days as they needed their new toy to market and attract the kids. No, I'm not cynical at all, why do you ask? :tongue:
  • Purge
    Purge
    GT Member edited January 8
    [ Note : this is simply my opinion, and I am open to other perspectives - if you are not, then please don't reply - this is not to create any stress in anyone's life ;) ]

    Porgs (Puffin Obstruction Replacement Graphics as I understand it) are fine (IMO), though I would have expected Chewie to growl and move on. He's getting soft. ;)

    I even support the subversive content Rittchard's link provides (and I read it cover to cover) and I am totally OK with most of the film (on it's own). I'll comment on the article in a bit.

    Still didn't like the things I brought up before, specifically ...
    Treatment of Luke. He'd go save his dad, but not Han (which is JJ's messup)? and then further to that, his abilities far outstripping everyone including Vader like projecting himself across the galaxy (finding them, no less) or teleporting Han's dice, etc... or getting to the point of attempted murder, when he himself was willing to look beyond his dad's own murderous ways.

    It took Palpatine his entire life to wrest control of the galaxy, and Snoke a mere generation, after the rebellion "won" and defeated the big bad starkiller base? It simply feels like a "whoops, them being in the lead isn't something we can do, so put them back behind the eight-ball." I don't think directing was the problem here, and not to speak ill of the dead, I didn't like Carrie's writing (or their unwillingness to deal with Ms. Fishers untimely death in this film).

    The chase scene has so many plot holes you can toss a death-star through them... (jumping star destroyers ahead, or just flying ahead of the fleeing capital ships, and flooding the space with tiefighters). Calling in more capital ships - I mean, Snoke did rule the Galaxy, no? I understand why they did this. It simply falls flat in the logic.

    The entire casino section was, IMO, a poorly written and executed part of the film. I'm not going to rehash that. There are potential plot points (eg the boy with the ring) where this could have been far more impactful.

    I would have liked to have seen Ahkbar to be the one to sacrifice himself instead of V.A. Holdo. Her refusal to share plans with pilots was to what point? This wasn't a covert operation and concerns of desertion didn't seem that high. Had some people chosen to use escape pods (besides Finn) during the fleeing would have given that argument substance (or at least, had a moment where Holdo used a sidebar with her officers to convey that reason).

    The way in which the force was disconnected from the rest of the Star Wars worlds, and used more as a "fill in this plot hole". Kinda like Scarlett Witch in the Avengers / Cap movies. "How can we do this? More force putty!"

    To quote Han "It doesn't work that way!". ;)

    There was a moment in my life where I questioned MS's decision to have 343 Studios act as a unified management of any Halo branded content, ensuring consistency and requiring stringent approvals for any product touching the brand.

    It feels like Disney, who also enacted this for Star Wars, did not execute this in the way that would have satisfied the ideas presented in the linked subversiveness article above, and the folks like myself who found this to be unsatisfying.

    The arguments in the subversiveness article begs the question - specifically as to what the older generation of Star Wars fans want or would have found acceptable.

    None of the points made were against what I took issue with. I celebrate the times changing and bringing about non-sexualized women and a shift in storytelling to reflect contemporary views (Han cornering Leia in the Millenium Falcon was sexual harassment -and watching it now brings that to the forefront as much as seeing the "asian" in Breakfast at Tiffany's does).

    The changing political and social structures will strike a chord with people - and we've all seen and enjoyed commentary about how "rebel" = "terrorist" and I think shows like Clone Wars took that to an even more extreme level of exploring the value systems while telling a coherent plotline.

    Ah well. It is what it is. I'm sure I'll watch it again, and I'll enjoy it for the stuff I like.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member edited January 8
    I think the discussion about The Force makes for a really interesting topic. I think people have very different senses of it. I always felt like it was something instinctual, mystical and intangible, and I never felt like we knew all the "rules" or extent to what could be done with it, particularly when you add the dark/light side. I suppose that's why I'm much more forgiving when (to me) each of the movies seemed to edit/change/add to the "rules".

    So let's collectively list what we "know" - but limit it to only the 6 movies. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert, and I really don't remember much about the first 3 movies except for something about midi-chlorines which felt really annoying at the time. Oh yeah also Yoda jumping around like a maniac. I'll let others fill in the blanks.

    Ep 1
    Ep 2
    Ep 3

    Ep 4 - Force seems to be tied with a lot of closing your eyes and being able to trust your instincts to shoot at things and fly ships well. And also to block crap with your lightsaber. Seems like anyone can actually operate a lightsaber, but to be really good with it, you have to "use the Force." Ben does Jedi mind tricks, which essentially seem to be the same as telepathic manipulation, planting thoughts up to controlling someone else's mind. We also see things getting thrown around, and Vader does his choke hold stuff, which seems to be in line with standard telekinetic powers. Ben also does his suicide trick to become a ghost or whatever. This is where it gets more mystical/magical/spiritual. So right from the start we have: instinctive ship flying, instinctive targeting, telepathy, telekinesis, "spirit form" - how are all these related? Hell if I know lol.

    Ep 5 - during Luke's training there's a lot of emphasis on moving stuff, like yanking lightsabers, moving rocks and his ship. For whatever reason it seems like moving larger objects is more strenuous than moving smaller ones. That goes back to the "standard telekinetic" power line. Is the size thing a mental block or is there some sort of physics involved? Who knows? In the big Luke vs Vader brawl they seem to do a lot of super jumping, which I attribute still to "standard" telekinetic powers.

    Ep 6 - the big add was of course the emperor and his force lightning, which seemed to come out of nowhere and didn't seem consistent with anything else we'd seen at the time. I suspect if this had happened in today's world, people would have been freaking out.

    I've forgotten a lot of other stuff like people sensing when others die and some of the other ghost related stuff. Feel free to fill in the blanks.

    I think the point remains (from my perspective) that there have never been hard and fast rules set for the Force. Yoda even makes light of the Jedi books implying they are just a part of the overall "force". And given that Luke has been on the island for so many years, who's to say what he learned/read in those books? I'd certainly expect he should have "leveled up" his abilities with nothing else to do all day but drink booby milk.





  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    It seems to me that the "rules" to the Force are locked in for a lot of people because of video games. In the movies, as ritt points out, it's far more malleable and personal. Additionally, TFA goes out of its way to point this out. Luke has a whole speech about what the Force is.

    I agree with a lot of you spoiler stuff, Purge, but there are a couple of things.
    As I mentioned, I don't agree with fans getting to label what the Force can do.

    I also think Luke's actions are not only perfectly in character but also precedented by himself and the moves of both Yoda and Obi Wan.

    As for the Resistance winning by defeating Starkiller Base, but all of a sudden the First Order is back in the lead because plotting, you're letting the parallels with the first movie mindtrick you. The Resistance took out a big weapon, sure, but that weapon had already completely destroyed the good guys' seat of power and many, many of the people who were in charge and making decisions for the good of the galaxy. Even with the "victory" at the end of TFA, on the whole, this was a major, spectacular defeat for the good guys.

    I agree mostly about the chase, though I think the lack of a cutting-them-off-at-the-pass move can be seen as hubris. And a bit like Michael Meyers or Jason chasing a girl through the cemetery...they were playing with their inevitable prey.

    The casino planet is too long and commits a creative writing atrocity by telling us and not showing us. Rose shouldn't have to tell us the weapons dealers are bad. We should have seen something go down to prove this fact to us. That was just so clumsily put together that it frustrates me (still love Rose, though).

    And, yes, it should have been Akbar. The only reason it wasn't that I can see is that it means fans would have sided with him instead of Poe. But given how Poe's mission went down in the end, I think that would have been a better set of circumstances anyway.

  • Purge
    Purge
    GT Member
    Beyond KOTOR, TDF (The Dark Forces) video game series and Force Unleashed (and Jedi Academy, a title I had no interest in) there was far more content to draw what should be possible.

    There are six seasons of canonized clone wars content (which explains, in detail, how a select few Jedi still live after death - a trick learned by embracing both sides of the force). Rebels also has content, all of which has fairly consistent use of the force. Maybe this is a lack of creativity, but they far more explore the balance of the force and light and dark sides.

    The Sith are only one malevolent force, and there are many other force-sensitive entities, some almost god-like, that would have other conceivable skills. One could make himself into a cloud (far larger than himself) to hide and then rain down upon enemies. (SW Rebels)
    It's not that any of the particular force effects impossible - the fact that there is a mystic element is excuse enough. Darth Maul's origin (and his brother Sauvage and the Witches) don't even use "force" magic per se in their culture.

    But if you're going to have a dude who hates what the Jedi represent and wants to hide from everyone, yet lives at one of their temples? And then comes up with stuff that no one has seen before (and let's not forget that if these abilities are documented in Jedi texts that it stands to reason his scope wouldn't exceed that which Jedi have known in the past). It doesn't really add up without addressing it directly. Even Obi Wan said something to the effect of growing more powerful than Vader could imagine (who ironically also had that same power)

    The Leia moment feels more like Roddenberry's Wesley Crusher moment of hubris - that somehow special powers have been bestowed on the character that (figuratively/literally) represents the material author. That she doesn't freeze, doesn't die, floats back to safety, opens an airlocked door and no one is affected blah blah blah.

    There have been many Jedi who have trained for years who've died in far more dire circumstances. She was written to be like the dude from Rogue One - force sensitive but not able to act with it. It was a jarring "WTF" moment, not an "awww, this is the child of Krypton saving his foster dad from being crushed under a truck" moment. (for me, at least).

    It was an excellent out for the late Fisher (and before we get too "awww" she is loved, but she died of a self-destructive habit - I don't think she is owed any more). The integrity of the story being told was still there - and the gambling dice had no significance per se. Maybe it closed a Solo/Luke/Leia gap? I don't know. They seemed to love and miss each other without it. They didn't need a miracle to sell it to us.

    In TFA, there was an untold history of Snoke - a familiarity between Leia/Han and him which goes unexplored - and perhaps Luke learning his ability to connect over the distance is plausible as a skill outside what was known - or perhaps even developed by Luke and taken by Snoke, but that's not how it played out.

    The gaps in presentation should not be just for the imagination of the audience to fill in - you don't need to hold everyones' hands but you should have some means to back up what's happening.
  • uxFOOL
    uxFOOL
    GT Manager
    I think it is incredibly reductive to think that the only Force abilities that exist are ones that appeared before in the films, cartoons, etc. I've always thought the boundaries of what can be done with it have been intentionally vague- it's basically magic. It makes total sense that different force-users are capable of different applications, and that some abilities either haven't been discovered yet or have been lost over time. Certainly there are some common base-line applications that are likely easier or more foundational.
    As for Luke, it's fairly obvious that he is full of self-loathing over his misstep with Ben Solo,
    and he is projecting that self-loathing to the Jedi Order. When he first arrived on Ach-To he may not have come to that frame of mind yet, or perhaps he went back there because he knew how completely isolated and forgotten it was. It's not like he could go back to Tattoine, that place is just too damn popular.

    Mike Dunn
    Executive Producer & Editor-at-Large
    GAMING TREND

  • Rumpy
    Rumpy
    GT Member edited January 10
    Saw it last night with my Dad and the long and short of it is that while I had many issues with TFA, namely in its execution, I felt like I didn't have any issues with this one. I felt it was a better direction job and everything about it seemed to gel better. I felt that TFA while looking like Star Wars felt blunt and cold, lacking in heart, but that The Last Jedi more than made up for it. It was more satisfying and emotionally resonant to me.
    The funny thing is, the scene right before that one when we see Maz Tanaka on the screen when she's describing the person they want to see, I turned to my Dad and told him it might be Lando. Because seriously, it seemed to me it could have been a perfect opportunity to use Lando, but I guess they weren't able to. But it fits his character and his abilities. Imagine an older Lando gambling away at a casino. It seems the kind of place he'd hang out at.
    3) the entire sequence on the casino planet felt unnecessary as did Benico del Toro's character who was pretty throwaway.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    I had that same thought, Rumpy.
  • Rumpy
    Rumpy
    GT Member edited January 10
    Blackjack wrote: »

    -I still feel like I know nothing about Supreme Leader Snoke. Who is he? Why's he so mad? Why does he look so misshapen? Does he even know how to use a light saber himself? I'm sure as with the zero background Captain Phasma, he probably has some thick hardcover book about him that I don't feel like reading. I would've thrown out the beast udder milking in favor of 30 seconds primer on Snoke so I feel something when he croaks instead of well "he's a gross-looking meanie!" I guess I could say the same about the Emperor in Episodes 4-6; and he wasn't clarified until the prequels.
    Yeah, I felt the same way with Abram's Trek 09 and Eric Bana's Nero. Zero backstory, and if we wanted any, we had to read the Star Trek: Countdown comic. A lot of it was simply B.S, but there's no reason they couldn't have fit in some backstory if it were directed properly. Characters central to the story with no backstory seem to be an Abrams-style trait. This movie assumes we know who Snoke is the moment we see the Star Crawl. Who is he and why is he so pissed off are those exact questions I had with Nero.

    As for Captain Phasma, I thought I had remembered reading somewhere that they'd give her more to do, and technically they did, but I felt it was a wasted potential.
  • EngineNo9
    EngineNo9
    GT Member
    I'm curious if I was the only one that went into this movie expecting...
    Luke to turn to the dark side? That was my suspicion for what the "big impact" would be for this dark second chapter. Though I have to admit I had avoided all trailers and spoilers beforehand.

    Once they started in on Luke's "all Jedi should be destroyed" screed and Rey working with Kylo Ren it seemed like the perfect setup for that to happen. Him seeing the emergence of these strong new Jedi/Sith and wanting to stop the endless cycle, thereby falling to the dark side.

    But instead he died after doing some mind magic. Which is fine, I guess, but not very impactful or shocking. But I guess I was happy to not have predicted the ending, as happens more often than not with movies these days.
  • Rumpy
    Rumpy
    GT Member edited January 11
    Well, given how much time had passed, and given how long we hadn't seen Luke, I thought it could go both ways. So, in that way, it felt satisfying to see something being done about a question many of us had wondered, ie just what happened to Luke after the OT. It'd been bandied about. The training thing is one thing from the EU they seemed to have kept, and I was actually pretty pleased. The fact that he eventually came upon a student, his nephew no less, that couldn't be trained, that he considered being a personal failure, I don't think it's at all surprising that he sequestered himself. If anything, he perhaps knew how dangerous he could be if he'd gone ahead with it, and it scared him. Sequestering himself would have been a way to block off those dark thoughts from the rest of the Force, and to prevent himself from going after Ren.

    Actually after thinking on it, for me, the more surprising thing was that Luke hadn't felt anything at all about the uprising of the New Order, that it took Rey to explain several times. Maybe he was at peace with himself and knew there wasn't all that much he could do to help given his failure with Ben Solo.

    Oh and as for that whole bit about explaining the Force, the way I saw it, it was done as a compromise between the OT's view and the Prequel view
  • uxFOOL
    uxFOOL
    GT Manager

    Mike Dunn
    Executive Producer & Editor-at-Large
    GAMING TREND

  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    wow, that's a fantastic interpretation, I loved reading it!
  • Rumpy
    Rumpy
    GT Member
    RE Leia:
    I read that scene as being a fight or flight reaction. We've known that the Force flows through her, she can feel/hear Luke through it. The Thrawn Trilogy even though it's bunk now, had made it sound that while she felt the Force, that she just chose not to use it, that she let Luke have that path while she became the diplomatic officer. But in terms of the movie, it makes me wonder, if even those who are in tune with it and choose not to use it, if some innate sense inside them will trigger it if they feel in danger. I think while a little hokey as played out on the screen, I think it's an interesting idea to explore.
  • uxFOOL
    uxFOOL
    GT Manager
    This is a very solid take from Joseph Gordon-Levitt: https://medium.com/@hitRECordJoe/a-new-old-skywalker-253efda3809c

    Mike Dunn
    Executive Producer & Editor-at-Large
    GAMING TREND

  • Jimmy the Fish
    Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    uxFOOL wrote: »
    This is a very solid take from Joseph Gordon-Levitt: https://medium.com/@hitRECordJoe/a-new-old-skywalker-253efda3809c

    Wow, well spoken, and I completely agree with his take. I get that a lot of fans are upset because Luke represents something sacred almost to fandom. Maybe the specific actions and dialog for Luke is problematic. The movie does have its clunky, inelegant, and sometimes stupid moments, but I appreciate the challenge to fans that making Luke what he is in the movie is trying to do. Force Awakens was criticized for being too nostalgic to the old characters at times. Seems like Last Jedi is being criticized in part for being too radical a departure from what we expected. Is it right or wrong? I agree with JG-L that there is no right answer. It just reinforces to me the notion that Star Wars means different things to different people. It's such a cultural icon that it's pretty much impossible to be everything to everyone.
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