[TV] The Walking Dead Season 8 (Careful there will be Spoilers!)

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Comments

  • Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    I didn't think it was bad as the premiere episode. I liked the tension and pacing but yeah, trying to figure out who was doing what, where and why got to the point where I just said f-it and went along for the ride.

    The season one character cameo was really out of nowhere. I don't even remember who that character is.
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    I'm imagining the war to at least be this half season. It was hard to place when this action was going on, for sure. I assumed it was concurrent with the last episode, but Rick and Darryl's Gun HuntTM kind of made that unlikely.

    The thing with Aaron's boyfriend was covered last season. He geared up for war, knew he wasn't ready, but convinced himself to participate, and the audience knew the scene last night was inevitable. I'm just glad they got it out of the way fast. Now the question is how long they'll let him hang on. Man, what a drip of a character, though.

    I liked that they continued to let Carol's BS-Detector SmirkinatorTM go off at anything King Fake-It-Til-You-Make-It had to say, and I even like that she let herself be on board by the end, but it seemed like this was meant to be a new thing, instead of a continuation of this exact same revelation we had last season. Plus, it really wasn't clear what he was making with all the faking in this particular plan. He seemed happy about it, though, so that's something. I hope it gets clarified.

    Crazy Morgan is always great, but his invulnerability pronouncement seemed tossed in and abrupt. I did enjoy his Hallway Death March of BadasseryTM, but given that he was sooo anti-killing just a short time ago, this feels like too much of a pendulum swing, even for Morgan.

    I have always said that the point of this whole show is holding onto humanity/civilization in the face of its potential end, but this whole brewing Rick Vs Maggie, the Rumble on the Hilltop (patent pending) feels a little too on point, not to mention shoved down our throats with the wailing lamentations of Fistbump Notcop vs Jesus. Especially given that, without question, Jesus should have killed that guy. Maybe not at first, but certainly after the whole "Pissed myself on purpose" revelation. I guess I can see not wanting to slaughter people who surrender, but how are you going to transport them? How are you going to house them or feed them? OTOH, this'll really put the Negan=Wicked Witch theory to the test, I guess. It's weird because on paper, I totally line up with what Jesus is thinking, but his moves feel forced and stupid in this episode.

    The baby reveal was devastating and fantastic, but the collective "Who???" from the audience after the Big Twist Reveal was a strain, even for this show. I imagine you could type in W and H on Google and immediately get a "Who is Morales" in the suggestion box.
  • Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member edited October 30
    LOL, I typed in 'who is' on Google and sure enough, 'who is Morales' is the first thing that appears in the suggestion box.

    And in case anyone was really wondering who he is (like me), here is the spoiler:

    http://www.tvguide.com/news/the-walking-dead-wait-who-is-morales-again/
  • rittchard
    GT Member
    I'm embarrassed to say I re-watched Season 1 only about 6 months ago and I still had zero idea who Morales was. Then I read the Wiki and I could still barely remember him. I don't know if they intended him to be a "big deal" return or not (a la Morgan), but seems like a misfire. I think Morgan probably had less overall screen time in his appearances, but way more impact.

    Yeah in retrospect I think the Notcop vs Jesus "dilemma" was probably but irritated me the most about this episode. I don't remember for certain, but I thought there was at least one episode where Jesus ran around like a ninja and killed people without much thought. But I could totally have just imagined that. With Glenn gone, it felt like they just needed someone to take that role and he kind of drew the short straw. I think Aaron might have worked better in that role. Regardless, by the time PissyPants threatened to kill him, it's realllllly hard to justify Jesus keeping him alive anymore. The other prisoners who surrendered, certainly debatable as I thought it was specifically mentioned that "workers" were to be spared. Obviously you are inviting future trouble the more you spare people, but as Bullwinkle said, the show (and our "hero" characters) are expected to hold onto their humanity as much as possible and not kill wantonly. But the more people they bring in, the more risk they take. Even leaving someone alive is a risk in this world. Now you've got potentially a big hoard of Neganites with who knows what agendas to deal with. There should be some good plot to milk from this if they do it well and it looks like they'll have to start next week with that annoying long-haired dude. Execution? Exile? Imprisonment? How to handle the troublemakers?
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    I did fine following everything except for the splinter group that's been in the same shootout for a couple of weeks. What's going on there, exactly? The other side isn't shooting at them any more, but we don't know who they've focused their attention on? Or are we supposed to know? These scenes felt like just a retread of what happened last week (apart from the Aaron and Too-Boring-To-Remember-His-Name boyfriend - that stuff was good...except for TBTRHN wandering off with no zombie close up, weird choice). I think they're trying to capture that comic book thing where you check in with different characters each issue, and their stories slowly progress (maybe their trying to fight the criticism against the solo, focused episodes), but that only works when there are important characters to check in with. The only important character in that shootout was Aaron, and he was off crying and then wandering away and then wandering back and crying.

    I also found Rick and Darryl's shootout to be awkwardly filmed, although I mostly got what was going on. There were some weird shot choices. Worse, though, was the useless waste of bullets. Good lord, they were lamer than stormtroopers in that fight. If you're going to make being out of bullets turn into a plot point, at least make it seem like the bullets that were used weren't being thrown away.

    I have to say that I was not surprised by the fate of last week's Surprise Guest Star Sponsored by Wikipedia. For the best, anyway, because that guy was hitting every line on the same gritted teeth level. But there were a couple of interesting moments in that. The idea that he saw Rick as a monster. That may be telling (and may pay off later). And, of course, that Darryl has lost his humanity (which was highlighted a second time later in the episode, in case you were busy looking up who the hell Morales was when it happened the first time [Thanks, Wikipedia!TM]). This is always the thrust of the show. Everyone has gone over the edge and has needed to be saved. It's nice that Rick went through it and is seeing it in Darryl. Carol's descent to inhumanity was the best for that, of course, but I feel like Darryl pulled her out of it, and it feels like a big shift from that to this. Was he imprisoned after he had Carol Soup? That might have done it. I can't remember the timing.

    I am usually all down for Crazy Morgan, but this whole Morgan VS Jesus thing just felt crazy for crazy's sake. There was no logic to it (even insanity has its own logic) or believability, really.

    Hooray for multiple instances of telling Gregory to shut up!

    So, I'm sure people hated this episode, because for me it was very uneven, and I usually like giving the show the benefit of the doubt.
  • Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    I didn't hate it. I agree though that it was a wildly uneven episode. I guess the blink and you might miss it cameo by Morales was only there to serve the purpose of making the point that in a different world, Rick and Morales could have ended up following different paths that would have led to them being in opposite circumstances. But it was kind of amusing that all that build up and dialog between the two of them was ended by Daryl's matter of fact arrow.

    The shootout that would not end stretched on through three episodes and I still don't quite get why, other than providing a backdrop to Aaron and Eric. Speaking of which, I felt absolutely nothing in reaction to Eric's death, turning and walking away. Probably because his character was so unimportant to the main group as a whole and who had so little screen time other than to worry about Aaron going off to fight.

    I'm amazed that Morgan's outlook has gone from one extreme to the other, going from non-violence to kill them all, but did I miss something? He was a deranged maniac fighting Jesus and then he sort of snapped out of it like he had been hypnotized and woke up from a dream?

    Finally, I wish Gregory would just get eaten already.
  • rittchard
    GT Member
    Yeah another mixed bag episode for me. Location-wise I really had no clue Rick and Daryl were in the same spot with Aaron. So I guess that was the crux of the plan to keep the people in that building busy so they could find the guns inside? Someone mentioned 3 outposts, I don't know if that includes the main base but I'm guessing not? So correct me if I'm wrong on "the plan." Step 1 was to keep the main base occupied with a ton of walkers. As soon as that was taken care of, they split and start hitting all the outposts. Morgan/Jesus took out the satellite center and end up with the prisoners. Rick/Daryl plus Aaron/Eric were on outpost 2 looking for the guns, which turned out to be a misdirection. Carol/Ezekiel plus the Kingdom warriors were on the way to hit outpost 3, which presumably does have the guns and was set up as an ambush.

    I thought the strange use of time-shifting in group 3 was a bit pointless, but whatever. The end result was kind of telegraphed since they kept prematurely patting themselves on the back, but they did a good job with the cliffhanger scene at the end.

    Eric's death had really low impact for me, and honestly if they didn't have him on Talking Dead later I wouldn't have been sure he was dead. After thinking about it, I believe the problem is actually quite simple; the two actors had little to no chemistry. This has less to do with either of them being good actors (personally I think Ross Marquand is fantastic), but sometimes two actors are put together and simply just have no chemistry. Whereas other times you can put mediocre actors together and their chemistry just carries the on-screen relationship. Frankly I thought Ross had more chemistry with Daryl and a ton more with Maggie. Every time I saw him with Eric they just felt awkward, or they made me feel awkward which is just as bad. On a side note, I was surprised to hear the Eric actor is actually not gay, or at least he mentioned he had a wife. Long story short, the guy seemed pretty cool in the after show but he was a poor casting choice. I'm glad they ended the torture in a fairly benign way, let Eric be a little bit of a hero, and opened the door to the pairing of Aaron/Jesus.

    Speaking of Jesus, I'm not sure wtf they were thinking with the martial arts showdown with Morgan. Yes, in some sense it was a cool "genre moment" but it was pretty non-sensical and it kind of happened wildly out of the blue. The fight itself was not half bad so I'll give them that. Apparently the two actors rehearsed a ton off screen so it did pay off to have the real actors doing the bulk of the scene. I feel bad for Jesus as he's been given the unpopular "keep people alive" role which really could have been assigned to anyone. I suppose it makes sense in some ways since he's the only one who as far as we know hasn't lost anyone recently.

    I did enjoy Morales' death, and Dark Daryl is pretty fun to watch. I really didn't want to see that drag on needlessly. I felt bad for that kid Daryl killed, but obviously they are gearing up for some sort of Rick vs Daryl conflict about keeping his word, blah blah blah.

    Overall I unfortunately think these guys just aren't as good as they think they are. It appears there are just too many moving pieces/characters/plot points for them to handle effectively. Then each of the episodes they try to throw in some pretentious tricks, and they just aren't pulling it off well. I still love the show and the bulk of the characters but I wish they would find a way to stay focused on doing a good job of telling the story at hand.
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    Honestly, before I read your first paragraph, I still didn't know that the shooting group was with Rick and Darryl. So I guess that's where they were going. If so, there should have been an endless stream of enemies coming at them, each of which would need a bullet, instead of what seemed like 4-6 guys who got missed a whole lot.
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    When this episode started with a flashback that went into King Zeke speechifying nonsense to rally the troops and he said, "And yet I smile" another half dozen times (which means the times he said it in the woods were just rehashes, which had to be eyeroll inducing for at least some followers), I was already over this episode.

    Plus, there were these weird ass zoom shots and delayed focus shots that looked like something out of some 70s road pic, and I thought, "What is this, some first time director?" I looked it up, and sure enough, it was some first time director (he's edited a bunch of episodes, though).

    And then some Bill Gates wannabe with dorky glasses that clearly came with a free haircut kidnapped the King and gritted his teeth through every line while dragging Zeke in impossible directions.

    I started the episodes with my arms crossed, basically.

    But then Carol mowed down a bunch of guys in a hallway with some perfect timing. And Jerry called the King dude and thanked him for being awesome (in a moment proving that everyone was in on his nonsense, but wanted to believe in him anyway). And Carol had to make a core-of-the-show choice (and made the right one). And Rick and Daryl swooped in for some last minute cavalry action in one of the better sequences TWD has had in years. And Shiva. GD Shiva. That got me more than I was expecting.

    In the end, this episode took me by complete surprise when it won me over. I even got to the point at the end where I started looking forward to the weird, trying-to-show-off shot choices, realizing that they actually fit the zombie genre really well. Frankly, if the whole show had been doing these kind of shots all along, it might have been an iconic choice.
  • rittchard
    GT Member
    Ha! My experience was very much like Bullwinkle's! By far the best ep of the season.

    When it first started with yet another flashback and speech, I had already started writing this post in my head about how pretentious the writers were becoming. But soon enough it transitioned into one cool element after another, and for the first time this season the episode actually flowed in a clear, linear fashion (aside from the flashbacks) with only a single set of characters to follow. Of course everyone loves badass Carol, and from the moment she appears the episode got stronger and stronger. Interestingly I don't think she really did anything particularly special as an actress this time around, it's just that the writers have really been way too all over the place instead of doing what they are good at (apparently), and that's staying focused.

    I did find her decision to save Ezekiel interesting. Losing those guns could have been far more devastating to everyone had Rick and Daryl not showed up in time.

    Sadly I actually felt significantly worse losing Shiva than I did Eric last week, even though I knew it was probably coming up soon. Being emotionally attached to a CG tiger is kind of odd, but oh well.

    Random question: why the f is T'Pol in the cast credits every week without ever showing up? I guess I should be thankful we don't have to see her, but I wanna know who she blew to get such good treatment. I'm pretty sure it took way longer for Aaron (and others) to make it out of the guest cast list.
  • Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    I don't know. Maybe I'm just getting bitter in my old age. I didn't like it nearly as much as you two. The asymmetrical passage of time with all the flashbacks and backwards and forwards this whole season is frustrating me. It feels like a cheap and unnecessary gimmick.

    I didn't feel any sort of emotional impact from losing the tiger. Ever since the show introduced it, Shiva has been an occasional neat cameo, with a few "oh shit" moments but it's sacrifice made no impact on me. Maybe it has more meaning for those who read the comic? I never really understood why the tiger was never around for long stretches of time, I guess roaming around in the woods. Where was it when Ezekiel and Jerry were making a last stand at the chain link fence?

    While wannabe Bill Gates was dragging Ezekiel around, I was laughing over the fact that they would stop for some verbal exposition yet it always seemed like the walkers were literally five feet away from them, almost as if they stopped in their tracks to let dialog proceed.

    This season feels like a chore just to sit through.
  • naednek
    GT Moderator
    Bullwinkle wrote: »
    When this episode started with a flashback that went into King Zeke speechifying nonsense to rally the troops and he said, "And yet I smile" another half dozen times (which means the times he said it in the woods were just rehashes, which had to be eyeroll inducing for at least some followers), I was already over this episode.

    Plus, there were these weird ass zoom shots and delayed focus shots that looked like something out of some 70s road pic, and I thought, "What is this, some first time director?" I looked it up, and sure enough, it was some first time director (he's edited a bunch of episodes, though).

    And then some Bill Gates wannabe with dorky glasses that clearly came with a free haircut kidnapped the King and gritted his teeth through every line while dragging Zeke in impossible directions.

    I started the episodes with my arms crossed, basically.

    But then Carol mowed down a bunch of guys in a hallway with some perfect timing. And Jerry called the King dude and thanked him for being awesome (in a moment proving that everyone was in on his nonsense, but wanted to believe in him anyway). And Carol had to make a core-of-the-show choice (and made the right one). And Rick and Daryl swooped in for some last minute cavalry action in one of the better sequences TWD has had in years. And Shiva. GD Shiva. That got me more than I was expecting.

    In the end, this episode took me by complete surprise when it won me over. I even got to the point at the end where I started looking forward to the weird, trying-to-show-off shot choices, realizing that they actually fit the zombie genre really well. Frankly, if the whole show had been doing these kind of shots all along, it might have been an iconic choice.

    weird I thought it was the worst of the season. Bill Gates wanna be dragging King Zeke with zombies within biting distance, and then all of a sudden they are hundreds of feet away. Pretty obvious at the gate scene how long Bill Gates had his back against the horde and nothing happened. Just ruined the episode for me. The beginning was extremely boring. I don't really care about Zeke and his speeches are so uninspiring. Glad the tiger bit it because that was dumb anyways.

    I'm losing interest in this series and actually enjoy FWD better now.
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    rittchard wrote: »
    Random question: why the f is T'Pol in the cast credits every week without ever showing up? I guess I should be thankful we don't have to see her, but I wanna know who she blew to get such good treatment. I'm pretty sure it took way longer for Aaron (and others) to make it out of the guest cast list.

    GTA Trevor is also in the credits every week and has yet to appear.

    A side note on T'Pol: I finally started playing Shadows of War and I found myself really digging sexy-lady Shelob. So I looked her up on IMDB. I'm sure you're ahead of me on this one...So, anyway, it turns out she can be okay when she's not doing monosyllabic non-sentences.

    Ever since the show introduced it, Shiva has been an occasional neat cameo, with a few "oh shit" moments but it's sacrifice made no impact on me. Maybe it has more meaning for those who read the comic?

    I never read the comic. But I get where you're coming from. The mere existence of Shiva seems to stretch credibility beyond understanding. And this is in a show where dead people want to eat people and also their heads get inexplicably soft. I mean, how did Shiva even tell who was a good guy and who was a bad guy? Like you said, where did she go when she wasn't ready to swoop in? And why didn't they just name her Deus Ex Machina? But that's why I was surprised when losing her affected me. Some of it was knowing the effect it would have on Zeke. I'm not a fan of him, necessarily, but I appreciate what he pulled off in pulling a community together under his silly banner. As we saw from Jerry, some people need that. Hell, we're seeing it with Negan and T'Pol, too. And Rick or Maggie (TBD). So it was nice that Zeke did it by making people feel safe and confident. But losing Shiva takes away some of his thunder, and as we saw in the end when he couldn't even talk to the boy, he needs that thunder. Unfortunately, so do his people (and, by extension, the world), so Shiva's loss cut a little deeper than it first appears. Also, she was a pretty cool CGI tiger.


    naednek wrote: »
    weird I thought it was the worst of the season. Bill Gates wanna be dragging King Zeke with zombies within biting distance, and then all of a sudden they are hundreds of feet away. Pretty obvious at the gate scene how long Bill Gates had his back against the horde and nothing happened. Just ruined the episode for me. The beginning was extremely boring. I don't really care about Zeke and his speeches are so uninspiring. Glad the tiger bit it because that was dumb anyways.

    I'm losing interest in this series and actually enjoy FWD better now.

    Interestingly, the things you point out were also in my craw at the start of the ep, but I thought it pulled out a win at the end. And given the uphill battle it had in winning me over, that was a pleasant surprise.
  • rittchard
    GT Member
    I forgave the pretentious flashbacking for this ep as they clearly wanted to establish what was lost in the Kingdom. Since we really never spent much time with the majority of the characters, there wasn't a whole lot they could do. Of course telegraphing things with techniques like the flower was a little annoying; they may as well have filmed it in black and white and had her show up in a red sweater lol.

    I think the ep turned around for me when Carol did her Die Hard routine in the building and I turned off my critical hat. Heck I would have loved a whole episode of that. I love seeing how Carol gets herself into and out of predicaments, though for me nothing beats the ep when she was on her own and got stopped on the road, that was freaking awesome. And then the finale with the Rick/Daryl car chase was just good action fun. The Bill Gates guy was annoying, but fitting in that a pretty much nothing Savior pretty much brought Ezekiel to his knees after they pretty much wiped half the entire population. The point of this episode seemed essentially to break "the king", to knock him back to the "reality" of essentially him being nothing more than "some guy," a zookeeper that was in the right place at the right time for the circumstances and happened to save a seemingly special tiger. But the truth was he had no special training and as Carol quizzed him, had barely been in any real conflicts. His overconfidence and lack of "real world" experience/preparation was as much as fault as the faulty intel. I'm sure this will come back on Rick eventually, as it was likely his call as to which team went where. It's interesting though that the bad intel just meant that the A-Team went to the wrong location, doesn't seem like that's what the "ambush" was meant to accomplish.

    I always enjoyed Shiva for the comic book element, even though it seemed incongruous with most everything else. But ultimately if I'm willing to buy the premise that something in the air infected every human being to rise as a zombie, why not buy that the weird shit mutated a tiger to be smarter and protective of the guy who saved him? I always go back to the introduction of Michonne, who for me changed the comic from a pure "realistic" vision to one that includes some fantasy/superhero elements. Hot black samurai warrior chick with two slave zombies - once you go there you kind of have to accept a little bit of the fantasy element.

  • naednek
    GT Moderator
    GTA Trevor came out when Neegan's camp was attacked in ep 1. I believe he pushed the Mayor of Hilltop off the stair way landing. It was brief.
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    naednek wrote: »
    GTA Trevor came out when Neegan's camp was attacked in ep 1. I believe he pushed the Mayor of Hilltop off the stair way landing. It was brief.

    Yes, but he's been in the credits every week, and I think that was his only appearance.
  • naednek
    GT Moderator
    Bullwinkle wrote: »
    naednek wrote: »
    GTA Trevor came out when Neegan's camp was attacked in ep 1. I believe he pushed the Mayor of Hilltop off the stair way landing. It was brief.

    Yes, but he's been in the credits every week, and I think that was his only appearance.

    Ok I guess I took your statement literally.
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member edited November 15
    naednek wrote: »
    Bullwinkle wrote: »
    naednek wrote: »
    GTA Trevor came out when Neegan's camp was attacked in ep 1. I believe he pushed the Mayor of Hilltop off the stair way landing. It was brief.

    Yes, but he's been in the credits every week, and I think that was his only appearance.

    Ok I guess I took your statement literally.

    I just reread what I wrote. You were right to take it literally 'cause I forgot about him pushing Gregory down the stairs. Sorry. The larger point is still the same, though.
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