[TV] The Walking Dead - Currently Season 9 (Careful there will be Spoilers!)

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  • Jimmy the Fish
    Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    I didn't think it was bad as the premiere episode. I liked the tension and pacing but yeah, trying to figure out who was doing what, where and why got to the point where I just said f-it and went along for the ride.

    The season one character cameo was really out of nowhere. I don't even remember who that character is.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    I'm imagining the war to at least be this half season. It was hard to place when this action was going on, for sure. I assumed it was concurrent with the last episode, but Rick and Darryl's Gun HuntTM kind of made that unlikely.

    The thing with Aaron's boyfriend was covered last season. He geared up for war, knew he wasn't ready, but convinced himself to participate, and the audience knew the scene last night was inevitable. I'm just glad they got it out of the way fast. Now the question is how long they'll let him hang on. Man, what a drip of a character, though.

    I liked that they continued to let Carol's BS-Detector SmirkinatorTM go off at anything King Fake-It-Til-You-Make-It had to say, and I even like that she let herself be on board by the end, but it seemed like this was meant to be a new thing, instead of a continuation of this exact same revelation we had last season. Plus, it really wasn't clear what he was making with all the faking in this particular plan. He seemed happy about it, though, so that's something. I hope it gets clarified.

    Crazy Morgan is always great, but his invulnerability pronouncement seemed tossed in and abrupt. I did enjoy his Hallway Death March of BadasseryTM, but given that he was sooo anti-killing just a short time ago, this feels like too much of a pendulum swing, even for Morgan.

    I have always said that the point of this whole show is holding onto humanity/civilization in the face of its potential end, but this whole brewing Rick Vs Maggie, the Rumble on the Hilltop (patent pending) feels a little too on point, not to mention shoved down our throats with the wailing lamentations of Fistbump Notcop vs Jesus. Especially given that, without question, Jesus should have killed that guy. Maybe not at first, but certainly after the whole "Pissed myself on purpose" revelation. I guess I can see not wanting to slaughter people who surrender, but how are you going to transport them? How are you going to house them or feed them? OTOH, this'll really put the Negan=Wicked Witch theory to the test, I guess. It's weird because on paper, I totally line up with what Jesus is thinking, but his moves feel forced and stupid in this episode.

    The baby reveal was devastating and fantastic, but the collective "Who???" from the audience after the Big Twist Reveal was a strain, even for this show. I imagine you could type in W and H on Google and immediately get a "Who is Morales" in the suggestion box.
  • Jimmy the Fish
    Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member edited October 2017
    LOL, I typed in 'who is' on Google and sure enough, 'who is Morales' is the first thing that appears in the suggestion box.

    And in case anyone was really wondering who he is (like me), here is the spoiler:

    http://www.tvguide.com/news/the-walking-dead-wait-who-is-morales-again/
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    I'm embarrassed to say I re-watched Season 1 only about 6 months ago and I still had zero idea who Morales was. Then I read the Wiki and I could still barely remember him. I don't know if they intended him to be a "big deal" return or not (a la Morgan), but seems like a misfire. I think Morgan probably had less overall screen time in his appearances, but way more impact.

    Yeah in retrospect I think the Notcop vs Jesus "dilemma" was probably but irritated me the most about this episode. I don't remember for certain, but I thought there was at least one episode where Jesus ran around like a ninja and killed people without much thought. But I could totally have just imagined that. With Glenn gone, it felt like they just needed someone to take that role and he kind of drew the short straw. I think Aaron might have worked better in that role. Regardless, by the time PissyPants threatened to kill him, it's realllllly hard to justify Jesus keeping him alive anymore. The other prisoners who surrendered, certainly debatable as I thought it was specifically mentioned that "workers" were to be spared. Obviously you are inviting future trouble the more you spare people, but as Bullwinkle said, the show (and our "hero" characters) are expected to hold onto their humanity as much as possible and not kill wantonly. But the more people they bring in, the more risk they take. Even leaving someone alive is a risk in this world. Now you've got potentially a big hoard of Neganites with who knows what agendas to deal with. There should be some good plot to milk from this if they do it well and it looks like they'll have to start next week with that annoying long-haired dude. Execution? Exile? Imprisonment? How to handle the troublemakers?
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    I did fine following everything except for the splinter group that's been in the same shootout for a couple of weeks. What's going on there, exactly? The other side isn't shooting at them any more, but we don't know who they've focused their attention on? Or are we supposed to know? These scenes felt like just a retread of what happened last week (apart from the Aaron and Too-Boring-To-Remember-His-Name boyfriend - that stuff was good...except for TBTRHN wandering off with no zombie close up, weird choice). I think they're trying to capture that comic book thing where you check in with different characters each issue, and their stories slowly progress (maybe their trying to fight the criticism against the solo, focused episodes), but that only works when there are important characters to check in with. The only important character in that shootout was Aaron, and he was off crying and then wandering away and then wandering back and crying.

    I also found Rick and Darryl's shootout to be awkwardly filmed, although I mostly got what was going on. There were some weird shot choices. Worse, though, was the useless waste of bullets. Good lord, they were lamer than stormtroopers in that fight. If you're going to make being out of bullets turn into a plot point, at least make it seem like the bullets that were used weren't being thrown away.

    I have to say that I was not surprised by the fate of last week's Surprise Guest Star Sponsored by Wikipedia. For the best, anyway, because that guy was hitting every line on the same gritted teeth level. But there were a couple of interesting moments in that. The idea that he saw Rick as a monster. That may be telling (and may pay off later). And, of course, that Darryl has lost his humanity (which was highlighted a second time later in the episode, in case you were busy looking up who the hell Morales was when it happened the first time [Thanks, Wikipedia!TM]). This is always the thrust of the show. Everyone has gone over the edge and has needed to be saved. It's nice that Rick went through it and is seeing it in Darryl. Carol's descent to inhumanity was the best for that, of course, but I feel like Darryl pulled her out of it, and it feels like a big shift from that to this. Was he imprisoned after he had Carol Soup? That might have done it. I can't remember the timing.

    I am usually all down for Crazy Morgan, but this whole Morgan VS Jesus thing just felt crazy for crazy's sake. There was no logic to it (even insanity has its own logic) or believability, really.

    Hooray for multiple instances of telling Gregory to shut up!

    So, I'm sure people hated this episode, because for me it was very uneven, and I usually like giving the show the benefit of the doubt.
  • Jimmy the Fish
    Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    I didn't hate it. I agree though that it was a wildly uneven episode. I guess the blink and you might miss it cameo by Morales was only there to serve the purpose of making the point that in a different world, Rick and Morales could have ended up following different paths that would have led to them being in opposite circumstances. But it was kind of amusing that all that build up and dialog between the two of them was ended by Daryl's matter of fact arrow.

    The shootout that would not end stretched on through three episodes and I still don't quite get why, other than providing a backdrop to Aaron and Eric. Speaking of which, I felt absolutely nothing in reaction to Eric's death, turning and walking away. Probably because his character was so unimportant to the main group as a whole and who had so little screen time other than to worry about Aaron going off to fight.

    I'm amazed that Morgan's outlook has gone from one extreme to the other, going from non-violence to kill them all, but did I miss something? He was a deranged maniac fighting Jesus and then he sort of snapped out of it like he had been hypnotized and woke up from a dream?

    Finally, I wish Gregory would just get eaten already.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    Yeah another mixed bag episode for me. Location-wise I really had no clue Rick and Daryl were in the same spot with Aaron. So I guess that was the crux of the plan to keep the people in that building busy so they could find the guns inside? Someone mentioned 3 outposts, I don't know if that includes the main base but I'm guessing not? So correct me if I'm wrong on "the plan." Step 1 was to keep the main base occupied with a ton of walkers. As soon as that was taken care of, they split and start hitting all the outposts. Morgan/Jesus took out the satellite center and end up with the prisoners. Rick/Daryl plus Aaron/Eric were on outpost 2 looking for the guns, which turned out to be a misdirection. Carol/Ezekiel plus the Kingdom warriors were on the way to hit outpost 3, which presumably does have the guns and was set up as an ambush.

    I thought the strange use of time-shifting in group 3 was a bit pointless, but whatever. The end result was kind of telegraphed since they kept prematurely patting themselves on the back, but they did a good job with the cliffhanger scene at the end.

    Eric's death had really low impact for me, and honestly if they didn't have him on Talking Dead later I wouldn't have been sure he was dead. After thinking about it, I believe the problem is actually quite simple; the two actors had little to no chemistry. This has less to do with either of them being good actors (personally I think Ross Marquand is fantastic), but sometimes two actors are put together and simply just have no chemistry. Whereas other times you can put mediocre actors together and their chemistry just carries the on-screen relationship. Frankly I thought Ross had more chemistry with Daryl and a ton more with Maggie. Every time I saw him with Eric they just felt awkward, or they made me feel awkward which is just as bad. On a side note, I was surprised to hear the Eric actor is actually not gay, or at least he mentioned he had a wife. Long story short, the guy seemed pretty cool in the after show but he was a poor casting choice. I'm glad they ended the torture in a fairly benign way, let Eric be a little bit of a hero, and opened the door to the pairing of Aaron/Jesus.

    Speaking of Jesus, I'm not sure wtf they were thinking with the martial arts showdown with Morgan. Yes, in some sense it was a cool "genre moment" but it was pretty non-sensical and it kind of happened wildly out of the blue. The fight itself was not half bad so I'll give them that. Apparently the two actors rehearsed a ton off screen so it did pay off to have the real actors doing the bulk of the scene. I feel bad for Jesus as he's been given the unpopular "keep people alive" role which really could have been assigned to anyone. I suppose it makes sense in some ways since he's the only one who as far as we know hasn't lost anyone recently.

    I did enjoy Morales' death, and Dark Daryl is pretty fun to watch. I really didn't want to see that drag on needlessly. I felt bad for that kid Daryl killed, but obviously they are gearing up for some sort of Rick vs Daryl conflict about keeping his word, blah blah blah.

    Overall I unfortunately think these guys just aren't as good as they think they are. It appears there are just too many moving pieces/characters/plot points for them to handle effectively. Then each of the episodes they try to throw in some pretentious tricks, and they just aren't pulling it off well. I still love the show and the bulk of the characters but I wish they would find a way to stay focused on doing a good job of telling the story at hand.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    Honestly, before I read your first paragraph, I still didn't know that the shooting group was with Rick and Darryl. So I guess that's where they were going. If so, there should have been an endless stream of enemies coming at them, each of which would need a bullet, instead of what seemed like 4-6 guys who got missed a whole lot.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    When this episode started with a flashback that went into King Zeke speechifying nonsense to rally the troops and he said, "And yet I smile" another half dozen times (which means the times he said it in the woods were just rehashes, which had to be eyeroll inducing for at least some followers), I was already over this episode.

    Plus, there were these weird ass zoom shots and delayed focus shots that looked like something out of some 70s road pic, and I thought, "What is this, some first time director?" I looked it up, and sure enough, it was some first time director (he's edited a bunch of episodes, though).

    And then some Bill Gates wannabe with dorky glasses that clearly came with a free haircut kidnapped the King and gritted his teeth through every line while dragging Zeke in impossible directions.

    I started the episodes with my arms crossed, basically.

    But then Carol mowed down a bunch of guys in a hallway with some perfect timing. And Jerry called the King dude and thanked him for being awesome (in a moment proving that everyone was in on his nonsense, but wanted to believe in him anyway). And Carol had to make a core-of-the-show choice (and made the right one). And Rick and Daryl swooped in for some last minute cavalry action in one of the better sequences TWD has had in years. And Shiva. GD Shiva. That got me more than I was expecting.

    In the end, this episode took me by complete surprise when it won me over. I even got to the point at the end where I started looking forward to the weird, trying-to-show-off shot choices, realizing that they actually fit the zombie genre really well. Frankly, if the whole show had been doing these kind of shots all along, it might have been an iconic choice.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    Ha! My experience was very much like Bullwinkle's! By far the best ep of the season.

    When it first started with yet another flashback and speech, I had already started writing this post in my head about how pretentious the writers were becoming. But soon enough it transitioned into one cool element after another, and for the first time this season the episode actually flowed in a clear, linear fashion (aside from the flashbacks) with only a single set of characters to follow. Of course everyone loves badass Carol, and from the moment she appears the episode got stronger and stronger. Interestingly I don't think she really did anything particularly special as an actress this time around, it's just that the writers have really been way too all over the place instead of doing what they are good at (apparently), and that's staying focused.

    I did find her decision to save Ezekiel interesting. Losing those guns could have been far more devastating to everyone had Rick and Daryl not showed up in time.

    Sadly I actually felt significantly worse losing Shiva than I did Eric last week, even though I knew it was probably coming up soon. Being emotionally attached to a CG tiger is kind of odd, but oh well.

    Random question: why the f is T'Pol in the cast credits every week without ever showing up? I guess I should be thankful we don't have to see her, but I wanna know who she blew to get such good treatment. I'm pretty sure it took way longer for Aaron (and others) to make it out of the guest cast list.
  • Jimmy the Fish
    Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    I don't know. Maybe I'm just getting bitter in my old age. I didn't like it nearly as much as you two. The asymmetrical passage of time with all the flashbacks and backwards and forwards this whole season is frustrating me. It feels like a cheap and unnecessary gimmick.

    I didn't feel any sort of emotional impact from losing the tiger. Ever since the show introduced it, Shiva has been an occasional neat cameo, with a few "oh shit" moments but it's sacrifice made no impact on me. Maybe it has more meaning for those who read the comic? I never really understood why the tiger was never around for long stretches of time, I guess roaming around in the woods. Where was it when Ezekiel and Jerry were making a last stand at the chain link fence?

    While wannabe Bill Gates was dragging Ezekiel around, I was laughing over the fact that they would stop for some verbal exposition yet it always seemed like the walkers were literally five feet away from them, almost as if they stopped in their tracks to let dialog proceed.

    This season feels like a chore just to sit through.
  • naednek
    naednek
    GT Moderator
    Bullwinkle wrote: »
    When this episode started with a flashback that went into King Zeke speechifying nonsense to rally the troops and he said, "And yet I smile" another half dozen times (which means the times he said it in the woods were just rehashes, which had to be eyeroll inducing for at least some followers), I was already over this episode.

    Plus, there were these weird ass zoom shots and delayed focus shots that looked like something out of some 70s road pic, and I thought, "What is this, some first time director?" I looked it up, and sure enough, it was some first time director (he's edited a bunch of episodes, though).

    And then some Bill Gates wannabe with dorky glasses that clearly came with a free haircut kidnapped the King and gritted his teeth through every line while dragging Zeke in impossible directions.

    I started the episodes with my arms crossed, basically.

    But then Carol mowed down a bunch of guys in a hallway with some perfect timing. And Jerry called the King dude and thanked him for being awesome (in a moment proving that everyone was in on his nonsense, but wanted to believe in him anyway). And Carol had to make a core-of-the-show choice (and made the right one). And Rick and Daryl swooped in for some last minute cavalry action in one of the better sequences TWD has had in years. And Shiva. GD Shiva. That got me more than I was expecting.

    In the end, this episode took me by complete surprise when it won me over. I even got to the point at the end where I started looking forward to the weird, trying-to-show-off shot choices, realizing that they actually fit the zombie genre really well. Frankly, if the whole show had been doing these kind of shots all along, it might have been an iconic choice.

    weird I thought it was the worst of the season. Bill Gates wanna be dragging King Zeke with zombies within biting distance, and then all of a sudden they are hundreds of feet away. Pretty obvious at the gate scene how long Bill Gates had his back against the horde and nothing happened. Just ruined the episode for me. The beginning was extremely boring. I don't really care about Zeke and his speeches are so uninspiring. Glad the tiger bit it because that was dumb anyways.

    I'm losing interest in this series and actually enjoy FWD better now.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    rittchard wrote: »
    Random question: why the f is T'Pol in the cast credits every week without ever showing up? I guess I should be thankful we don't have to see her, but I wanna know who she blew to get such good treatment. I'm pretty sure it took way longer for Aaron (and others) to make it out of the guest cast list.

    GTA Trevor is also in the credits every week and has yet to appear.

    A side note on T'Pol: I finally started playing Shadows of War and I found myself really digging sexy-lady Shelob. So I looked her up on IMDB. I'm sure you're ahead of me on this one...So, anyway, it turns out she can be okay when she's not doing monosyllabic non-sentences.

    Ever since the show introduced it, Shiva has been an occasional neat cameo, with a few "oh shit" moments but it's sacrifice made no impact on me. Maybe it has more meaning for those who read the comic?

    I never read the comic. But I get where you're coming from. The mere existence of Shiva seems to stretch credibility beyond understanding. And this is in a show where dead people want to eat people and also their heads get inexplicably soft. I mean, how did Shiva even tell who was a good guy and who was a bad guy? Like you said, where did she go when she wasn't ready to swoop in? And why didn't they just name her Deus Ex Machina? But that's why I was surprised when losing her affected me. Some of it was knowing the effect it would have on Zeke. I'm not a fan of him, necessarily, but I appreciate what he pulled off in pulling a community together under his silly banner. As we saw from Jerry, some people need that. Hell, we're seeing it with Negan and T'Pol, too. And Rick or Maggie (TBD). So it was nice that Zeke did it by making people feel safe and confident. But losing Shiva takes away some of his thunder, and as we saw in the end when he couldn't even talk to the boy, he needs that thunder. Unfortunately, so do his people (and, by extension, the world), so Shiva's loss cut a little deeper than it first appears. Also, she was a pretty cool CGI tiger.


    naednek wrote: »
    weird I thought it was the worst of the season. Bill Gates wanna be dragging King Zeke with zombies within biting distance, and then all of a sudden they are hundreds of feet away. Pretty obvious at the gate scene how long Bill Gates had his back against the horde and nothing happened. Just ruined the episode for me. The beginning was extremely boring. I don't really care about Zeke and his speeches are so uninspiring. Glad the tiger bit it because that was dumb anyways.

    I'm losing interest in this series and actually enjoy FWD better now.

    Interestingly, the things you point out were also in my craw at the start of the ep, but I thought it pulled out a win at the end. And given the uphill battle it had in winning me over, that was a pleasant surprise.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    I forgave the pretentious flashbacking for this ep as they clearly wanted to establish what was lost in the Kingdom. Since we really never spent much time with the majority of the characters, there wasn't a whole lot they could do. Of course telegraphing things with techniques like the flower was a little annoying; they may as well have filmed it in black and white and had her show up in a red sweater lol.

    I think the ep turned around for me when Carol did her Die Hard routine in the building and I turned off my critical hat. Heck I would have loved a whole episode of that. I love seeing how Carol gets herself into and out of predicaments, though for me nothing beats the ep when she was on her own and got stopped on the road, that was freaking awesome. And then the finale with the Rick/Daryl car chase was just good action fun. The Bill Gates guy was annoying, but fitting in that a pretty much nothing Savior pretty much brought Ezekiel to his knees after they pretty much wiped half the entire population. The point of this episode seemed essentially to break "the king", to knock him back to the "reality" of essentially him being nothing more than "some guy," a zookeeper that was in the right place at the right time for the circumstances and happened to save a seemingly special tiger. But the truth was he had no special training and as Carol quizzed him, had barely been in any real conflicts. His overconfidence and lack of "real world" experience/preparation was as much as fault as the faulty intel. I'm sure this will come back on Rick eventually, as it was likely his call as to which team went where. It's interesting though that the bad intel just meant that the A-Team went to the wrong location, doesn't seem like that's what the "ambush" was meant to accomplish.

    I always enjoyed Shiva for the comic book element, even though it seemed incongruous with most everything else. But ultimately if I'm willing to buy the premise that something in the air infected every human being to rise as a zombie, why not buy that the weird shit mutated a tiger to be smarter and protective of the guy who saved him? I always go back to the introduction of Michonne, who for me changed the comic from a pure "realistic" vision to one that includes some fantasy/superhero elements. Hot black samurai warrior chick with two slave zombies - once you go there you kind of have to accept a little bit of the fantasy element.

  • naednek
    naednek
    GT Moderator
    GTA Trevor came out when Neegan's camp was attacked in ep 1. I believe he pushed the Mayor of Hilltop off the stair way landing. It was brief.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    naednek wrote: »
    GTA Trevor came out when Neegan's camp was attacked in ep 1. I believe he pushed the Mayor of Hilltop off the stair way landing. It was brief.

    Yes, but he's been in the credits every week, and I think that was his only appearance.
  • naednek
    naednek
    GT Moderator
    Bullwinkle wrote: »
    naednek wrote: »
    GTA Trevor came out when Neegan's camp was attacked in ep 1. I believe he pushed the Mayor of Hilltop off the stair way landing. It was brief.

    Yes, but he's been in the credits every week, and I think that was his only appearance.

    Ok I guess I took your statement literally.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member edited November 2017
    naednek wrote: »
    Bullwinkle wrote: »
    naednek wrote: »
    GTA Trevor came out when Neegan's camp was attacked in ep 1. I believe he pushed the Mayor of Hilltop off the stair way landing. It was brief.

    Yes, but he's been in the credits every week, and I think that was his only appearance.

    Ok I guess I took your statement literally.

    I just reread what I wrote. You were right to take it literally 'cause I forgot about him pushing Gregory down the stairs. Sorry. The larger point is still the same, though.
  • naednek
    naednek
    GT Moderator
    I thought last nights episode was great. I loved the interaction between Gabriel and Neegan and the Saviors. It felt like classic TWD with character progression.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    naednek wrote: »
    I thought last nights episode was great. I loved the interaction between Gabriel and Neegan and the Saviors. It felt like classic TWD with character progression.

    Best ep of the season thus far, and definitely the best Negan episode. They finally gave the actor more than a single note to play and gave him some human elements. Shitty human elements, but at least they were actually real person traits. Frankly I was hoping for even more, maybe even a flashback or two. For once when they really could have benefitted from a flashback they decided not to use one for him, bah.

    It was also cool to see a glimmer of the inner workings of the Saviours. I loved seeing they actually had "meetings" of the main leaders, and found it funny Eugene had already weaseled his way into a semi-high position. Curious how Negan kept challenging Simon with "things sliding back to the way they used to be" which to me implied Simon had been in charge before, but on the aftershow the actor seemed like it never occurred to him. I did like his comment that if the show/writing had followed the Saviours instead of Rick's group, you might have viewed them as the good guys. I almost think they could pull off an episode a la Lost's classic "The Other 48 Days" where you get to see the everything from the other group's point of view leading up to the present. The challenge would be to further humanize Negan's assholey elements, but I believe a good writer could do it. I guess this episode is probably as close to that as we're gonna get.

    Oddly, the elements that worked the least for me were with the "stars". The Rick/Daryl fight that's been building up was silly and contrived, and the conclusion of blowing all the weapons they worked so hard to get was annoying at best. So that's what the entire Kingdom army died for, really? The biggest surprise for me was the helicopter, as it doesn't seem to match up with any plotline I can recall from the comic. I'm excited but skeptical.

    Anyway, I guess it goes back to what I was saying last week, it seems like the writers/producers do their best work when they stay focused on a few characters and more importantly one moving/coherent storyline. They apparently aren't equipped at putting too many blocks and characters in place simultaneously.

    Next week: T'POL! T'POL! T'POL!
  • Jimmy the Fish
    Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    I really liked that Father Gabriel had some quality screen time. It really struck me that his character has been woefully underdeveloped for a really long time, and it was nice that Negan was more than a one note character for once.

    I agree about how contrived the Rick/Daryl thing was. I was laughing when Rick threw the satchel of dynamite on or over the truck and it somehow spontaneously combusted in the most unrealistic way possible. That was just stupid.

    Every time I see Simon, I tell myself that I need to go play me some GTA V.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    I agree about how contrived the Rick/Daryl thing was. I was laughing when Rick threw the satchel of dynamite on or over the truck and it somehow spontaneously combusted in the most unrealistic way possible. That was just stupid.

    It was like watching The Simpsons lol.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    I'm on the same page as everyone here. Great episode. Fantastic Gabriel/Negan character building, awesome Savior Staff Meeting (though someone forgot the sorghum donuts), stupid Rick Darryl Buddy Fight Action (this seemed like the obligatory fight that has to happen when two superheroes bump into each other), cool-ass out of left field helicopter cameo.

    So, after this season high, it's up to T'Pol and the Trash Talkers to bring everything crashing down.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    I really enjoyed last night's episode. Probably best to not over-analyze it, but there were enough awesome "moments" to make it really memorable, as well as move forward some of the major storylines. This was one of the few episodes they managed to include a ton of characters and still keep things largely coherent.

    Best shot had to be Rosita blowing up the truck guy. It seemed like a total waste as she could have just blew up the truck, but so much more satisfying lol. Great to see Michonne in action again, and I like that they acknowledged she is still injured/human. The follow up truck moment was a great surprise as well, but again, try not to think too much about it. Was Daryl just driving around in a giant truck and happened to come upon the same exact spot at the same time? I guess we can presume he heard the music?

    The quieter moments worked well too. Carol is always fantastic and I enjoyed all of her scenes, both with the kid and Ezekiel. Apparently the boy is the younger brother of the actress who played Sophia, so that added a dimension to her chemistry with him. Carl - I wish he would cut his hair, it's driving me nuts, but that's neither here nor there. I liked that he finally had an interesting sub-plot that was mostly independent of everything else, it's been a while since he's had some good material to work with. I'm skeptical about the new guy, but he could be a good addition. Loved Maggie's storyline, and how she handled the impossible situation she's been put in. Also love the tease of having Jesus and Aaron in the same room and not even acknowledging each other when every gay fan on the planet is waiting for them to get together, argh!!! The Aaron/Enid pairing was odd, and I thought it was a little ominous the way Aaron says "we may be gone for a long time" - not sure if that means they are going off on a significant subplot.

    And finally.... T'POL. Yes, the queen of the non-sensical, doing her sculptures in the nude just a day after a major battle. Cuz what else would you be doing? I still have no idea why the writers are so enamored with her, or what their plans are with the trash people, but she's awesome for a good laugh, and anything that ends with Rick being naked is aces in my book. But seriously, wtf is Rick thinking? It makes really no sense at all, unless it's because he wants to keep an eye on them and make sure they don't f things up. Of course his beloved "plan" has already been messed up by everyone on his own side, so I don't know what he's still clinging to.

    ...and they finally announced the FTWD crossover character, MORGAN! Very interesting, will be cool to see how they plot that out. Maybe the helicopter has something to do with it?


  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member edited November 2017
    I also enjoyed the episode, but I would say it was in spite of T'Pol and the Trashtalkers who were just as infuriatingly weird for weird's sake as ever. Props to the actress, she did handle the moment where Rick asked for a commitment, she smiled in a tender way that implied acceptance, and then she said no. That was good. But, no, these people don't make any sense and are stupid. I hate them. They're talking like we're a thousand years into the apocalypse and we've forgotten what most words mean, but, despite Carl's, um, growth spurt, we're only a couple of years in (if that). Give me King Zeke's nonsense over this garbage (ha, ha) any day.

    Also, Daryl swooping in to stop the Truck of Doom headed to Sanctuary AGAIN was just a little too much for me. You can get away with that shit once. It was great last time. This time would have been even better if we didn't have essentially the same thing just a couple of weeks ago. It felt cheap to me.

    Those moments aside, good stuff. Like rittchard said, I Carol was good as usual (although her walking away from Zeke felt a little contrived), Maggie was great (I enjoyed Gregory's comeuppance, but I hope for more), and even Carl had some good stuff (I do hope the person who learns a lesson in this storyline is Rick and not Carl, though. I think it's time for the kid to teach the father, I think).

    EDIT: Oh, I meant to mention that, once again, I did not recognize Rosita until a chunk of time passed in her first scene with Michone. Seriously, her hat needs to be written into every script. "[Rosita approaches the car, wearing hat]" I don't care if she takes it off immediately, but I need it to establish who the hell she is. Also, if the action goes away from her for a little while, she needs to put the hat back on for a second when they finally cut back to her.

    Anyway, next week is penultimate episode. Surely someone important is going to die, right?
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    Nice lead-in episode for next week's mid-season finale, in which we have been promised something really "major." Another "big" death? Yawn. Is it Carl so he can go off to college? Michonne off to the Marvel universe? Eugene sacrificing himself so he can go do his play on Broadway? I'm actually guessing it might have more to do with the helicopter and/or Morgan's eventual shift to Fear. (Given it will be based in Texas, it's going to be pretty hard to explain how they get him from the east coast to the new place.)

    Back to the ep. A big big Eugene episode. We get to see a lot of the internal conflict he's been under, and the toll it's taken on him - which shows in spite of everyone saying he's only out to save himself, he does have a greater conscience. If he was as single-minded and shallow as even the actor seems to convey, why would he feel sad/guilt over things involving his old friends? And even yet he still clings to Negan and the Saviours. I think most people expect(ed) him to turn back to the "good" side by now, but he's still hanging on. They have been building this for a long time so I still hope there's a good payoff. Otherwise it's time to let Daryl kill him lol. Some good stuff with Dwight as well, and interesting to see Negan like a supporting character to Eugene this week, buttering him up just enough to keep things interesting. The writers clearly love him and he hasn't done anything irredeemable yet, so here's hoping he gets a good plot turn. I'm curious what his solution was to get the Saviours out, maybe some super machine gun thing since they mention running out of bullets.

    SHIRTLESS RICK. So much yum running around in cute boxers. On a side note, it's interesting to see he's filled out and buffed up quite a bit. He used to be quite skinny/lean and a bit hairy. Now he's all shaved and kind of buff. So sexy either way. It was funny to hear them talking about him on Walking Dead, I wish I was in the audience for that so I could school them on shirtless Rick trivia. Enjoyed seeing him take down yet another spikey walker AND T'Pol, with his hands tied no less. I totally don't understand the point of any of this, but I'm not going to complain about a shirtless Rick scene. So as it turns out, it looks like he was right that he needed the Trash Fodder, since his own people always screw shit up. He was barely gone a day before they messed up the plan. T'Pol needs to die, I think the actress is fun but she belongs on another show, she'd be great on The Orville.

    I don't really remember much else, except some whining by Rosita and Michonne about why they couldn't help.

    Next week should be exciting. Negan's back at Alexandria, seems he's there like every other day now. Given how many people they killed, I'm not even sure who's left to threaten besides Carl and Michonne. They should just run and let Negan have it lol.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    I loved everything with Eugene and hated everything with T'pol (except for the walker fight). Fortunately, the Eugene stuff won out.

    That was some high quality doth-protest-too-much acting going on there. Watching him ping-pong back and forth between caring and absolutely not caring, no way, uh uh was a lot of fun. I think they're building to something great next week. I certainly hope so.

    I'm worried that Father Milquetoast is on the chopping block, only because he seems like an easy kill. They finally gave him something to do with Negan (which was pretty cool), and then immediately gave him a mysterious illness. So, a fairly useless character gets his moment and then gets sick? Seems like a death sentence to me. If that's the only one, that's a bit of a waste.

    Signs seem to be pointing to something bigger than that, but we'll see if it's just hype.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    Wow.

    Okay, it's not like that wasn't completely out of left field. College is happening and all, of course, but they've been doing a good job this season showing how Carl could still be a presence but not be present on the show, necessarily. At one point, I thought he was going to take on the recruiting role that Aaron had, which would explain his absence, but really, I should have seen it coming when the episode started with a heart to heart with Dad and then Carl had the plan and then he had a great showdown/stall with Negan (well-framed, too) and then he scurried through that awesome backdrop of smoke and fire and just murky greyness. They gave him so many moments tonight, of course it was going to end in his death, but I couldn't have predicted the reality of it. The bite. We haven't seen just a plain and simple bite in seasons, it feels like. "And that's how it happened." What a bitter ending for our boy.

    It looks like we'll get just a little more Carl in February. That's going to be an episode to gear up for emotionally.
  • Jimmy the Fish
    Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    Flat out the best episode in a long time and clearly best this season.

    Rick is going to be mentally shattered now.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member edited February 25
    I reread a description of the "flash forward" from the first episode of the season. There was already speculation that the girl was not L'il Ass-Kicker but the one rescued from the outpost grown up, but now I'm wondering about the Carl we saw. The shot of him was only from behind, so I guess it could've been someone else. Or this whole thing, with its fantasy realm white lighting could be Rick's dream of a day that won't happen (or a fantasy that he locks into when he gets mentally shattered, as Jimmy mentioned).

    I'm betting it's a dream of what won't be kind of thing, but there is a third possibility. Could Carl somehow survive this? It doesn't seem possible, but neither does an animated corpse.

    BTW, so much time seems to have passed since Carl rescued that guy in the woods that I thought this bite was from a new incident that we would have to see in the next episode. I accepted that he was okay, you know? It was only later that I put two and two together.
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