[TV] The Walking Dead Season 7 (Careful there will be Spoilers!)

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  • rittchard
    GT Member
    Ugh, saw a new analysis that shows what appears to be Daryl's poncho/blanket on the dead body, but worse what appears to be Maggie's engagement ring. I don't know if I could handle Maggie being the victim, I think that might be the most devastating loss for me.
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    on 1476296093:

    Ugh, saw a new analysis that shows what appears to be Daryl's poncho/blanket on the dead body, but worse what appears to be Maggie's engagement ring. I don't know if I could handle Maggie being the victim, I think that might be the most devastating loss for me.


    Not to mention, that would be a big mistake, IMO.
  • rittchard
    GT Member
    on 1476298672:

    on 1476296093:

    Ugh, saw a new analysis that shows what appears to be Daryl's poncho/blanket on the dead body, but worse what appears to be Maggie's engagement ring. I don't know if I could handle Maggie being the victim, I think that might be the most devastating loss for me.


    Not to mention, that would be a big mistake, IMO.


    I agree, but then I imagine Daryl and Glenn fans would probably make the same argument, depending on who their favorite is. From a storytelling standpoint, I could see arguments for all of the characters.
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    on 1476314020:

    on 1476298672:

    on 1476296093:

    Ugh, saw a new analysis that shows what appears to be Daryl's poncho/blanket on the dead body, but worse what appears to be Maggie's engagement ring. I don't know if I could handle Maggie being the victim, I think that might be the most devastating loss for me.


    Not to mention, that would be a big mistake, IMO.


    I agree, but then I imagine Daryl and Glenn fans would probably make the same argument, depending on who their favorite is. From a storytelling standpoint, I could see arguments for all of the characters.


    I expect it'll be one of those two. It'll be devastating for fans, either way, but that's not the same thing as a mistake. Losing Maggie would be a mistake.

    Now, Lauren Cohan may want to head off and explore other things to do with her career, and, depending on her contract, they may not have had a choice in the matter. In which case :crybaby:
  • Ironrod
    GT Member
    I'm sure I've said before that either Maggie or Glen has to die because happy couples are not a thing in this world. If Maggie's pregnant (am I remembering that right?), I'd say her number is up. They already have one prop baby after all.

    Her days are numbered even if she's not the one who got whacked.
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    on 1476328634:

    I'm sure I've said before that either Maggie or Glen has to die because happy couples are not a thing in this world. If Maggie's pregnant (am I remembering that right?), I'd say her number is up. They already have one prop baby after all.

    Her days are numbered even if she's not the one who got whacked.


    I doubt it. The potential for drama with a baby is just too high. There are so many things that can happen both before and after (and the other one is getting older now). Now, she might die giving birth, but that would feel like familiar ground (unless it turns out to be a zombie baby that eats her from the inside, which, holy shit, would be worth the loss of Maggie for the jaw drop).

    But getting rid of her while pregnant would be losing too many fertile opportunities, pun intended.
  • Blackjack
    GT Member
    I assume Maggie's offed, gives birth to a Zombie Baby :cube:. Hilarity ensues, as well as a spinoff show called "That Zombie Baby!" :funeral:

    I'm not 100% sure I'm watching anymore, depending on if the first few eps this year hook me. Fear the Walking Dead lost my interest long ago.

    With TWD, I feel like even the best show starts to repeat itself around seasons 5-7 (which is presumably why plenty of successful shows pull the plug around that point; while others often drag on repetitively into double-digit seasons as long as the ratings are still there), and don't expect Walking Dead to be any different. :deadhorse2:

    I mean, how many times can we watch The Group try to reform civilization or fit in at a pseudo civilization, then fail while battling some evil arch nemesis group, then go on an epic road trip, then find another prospective home? Then lather-rinse-repeat. Can't argue with the ratings, I just find my interest level dwindling.

    I'm sure it's faithful to the comics, and that just a continuous circle of failed hopes leading to anguish/misery is its route pattern. Along with killing off a couple fan-favorite characters each year and replacing them with characters often not quite as compelling.

    I dunno. Maybe the first time I hear Rick screeching, 'CAAAA-AHRL!!!! MEESHON!!!!!!!!!!!! DAAAA-RRREEELLLLL! MAAAGGGIIIIEEEE!!!!! GLUHN!!!!!!!!!!!!!" I'll just be a sucker and take all this back. :icon_razz:
  • rittchard
    GT Member
    Well, if they follow the comic to any extent, which it appears they are, the show should shift dramatically. Instead of the on-the-run from one pseudo civilization to another, as BJ describes, it starts to deal with different societies existing together and how they interact and work with one another, or don't. They've essentially started down that road by the end of last season, and it looks like they are pushing that direction in this one. Negan is, of course, a big part of that.

    Admittedly even the comic is starting to feel a bit repetitive at this point, but I think the TV show can still milk another few solid seasons before it gets to the point where the comic is at.

    Maggie has a huge role in the comics, so it would be pretty shocking to see her go now, but they've certainly made major divergences in the past (like Andrea). The question is who would fill the role that Maggie has in the comic, and there aren't too many strong choices.
  • Punisher
    GT Member
    on 1476395253:

    Well, if they follow the comic to any extent, which it appears they are, the show should shift dramatically. Instead of the on-the-run from one pseudo civilization to another, as BJ describes, it starts to deal with different societies existing together and how they interact and work with one another, or don't. They've essentially started down that road by the end of last season, and it looks like they are pushing that direction in this one. Negan is, of course, a big part of that.

    Admittedly even the comic is starting to feel a bit repetitive at this point, but I think the TV show can still milk another few solid seasons before it gets to the point where the comic is at.

    Maggie has a huge role in the comics, so it would be pretty shocking to see her go now, but they've certainly made major divergences in the past (like Andrea). The question is who would fill the role that Maggie has in the comic, and there aren't too many strong choices.



    I am thinking Glenn maybe. Just a simple role reversal... Other than that I can't think of anyone..
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    Damn.

    What an emotional rollercoaster.

    I was still a little irked that we had to wait when the episode started, then even more so when they delayed the reveal even longer. For a second, I thought they might never tell us and only have it revealed by who wasn't around as the show went on.

    Then Abraham, and it was very sad, but I kept thinking it was kind of a weak choice. Then I checked Rick's cheek...no splatter! Oh, wait there it goes.

    In the back of my mind, I knew there was going to be another. It had been rumored, and Abraham wasn't worth the wait, frankly, but this episode did a pretty good job at keeping me off kilter.

    Darryl, what the fuck are you doing?! But of course he did. And of course he wouldn't be the next one to go.

    Poor Glenn. The special effects eyeball was just goofy enough to kind of work. It made sense that it was Glenn, of course, to pay off what some felt was a cheap story trick with him last season, but, man, that was hard.

    But the extended amputation moment was almost worse. I know Rick lost his hand in the comic, and I really thought Negan would make it happen (even after it was over, I still thought someone's hand was coming off). In the end, it might be emotionally worse for Carl that the hand didn't come off, I think. If it had, it would suck, of course, but he'd bring himself to understanding why it had to happen. Whereas now he's just left with the idea that his dad was going to do it.

    I have to say, I was pretty damned drained by the end of this one.
  • naednek
    GT Moderator
    as someone who stood away from the off-season this took me by surprise. Had me want to stop watching due to the violence and how dark it has become. The tone has definitely changed.
  • Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    Okay, I'm going to reveal just how dense I am, but all the stuff in the RV, was that all in Rick's mind or did it really happen? I think it was all in his mind, but the way the episode played out, I'm not entirely certain. The editing was confusing.

    Overall, a really rough episode, even if I knew in advance who was going to get it. Seeing it play out was pretty distressing.

    Jeffrey Dean Morgan is pretty awesome as Negan though. As sadistic and twisted as he is, you cannot stop watching the guy.
  • Blackjack
    GT Member
    I watched it, and Talking Dead -- held at a massive fan-screening at a Hollywood cemetery with nearly the entire cast showing up there including Jeffrey Dean Morgan, and eventually in unforecasted, pouring rain -- was a 90 minutes special and hoot and also touching to watch.

    Scott Grimes denies TWD has become "misery porn," though I'm not sure what else to call last night's episode? And then
    it tries to get uplifting at the end, which seemed to me like putting a Band-Aid on an amputee. :icon_smile:

    While I'm still invested enough in some remaining characters to want to keep watching (and heck there's nothing more interesting to watch Sunday nights imho), I feel like the show at times is tipping so far into torturing characters and allowing no remaining hope in its world, that there is the feeling creeping in of "why watch anymore?"

    It's like, more characters will die (except presumably Rick, I feel like everyone else's number could come up eventually), another would-be sanctuary/haven will prove to be not, some other megomaniacal maniac villain (Governor, Negan, 'good characters gone bad' etc.) will rip people up and/or trick/mislead people, survivors will take a road trip somewhere. That's the show, and it still tops basic cable, still sells merchandise and draws a zillion fans to special events. So maybe that's fine...
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    I don't agree. Although last night's episode definitely had elements of torture porn and was fairly miserable (for the characters and the viewers, though in a good way for the latter), I think last season was all about hope.

    If you remember, Rick was in a bad place at the beginning, when the got to Alexandria. He had the gang plotting to take down that city from within. He had turned cold and dead inside, but there was a nice shift for him, and by the end, he had hope for humanity and civilization again. Even with all the folks who died. Even with the Wolves attacking. Even with his new lady friend getting eaten by walkers and Carl losing an eye.

    Even Carol, who had traveled waaaaay to far down the hollow path, suddenly realized she needed redemption, even if she's only just started to wonder if she deserves it and hasn't really started looking for it yet.

    If the Rick before Alexandria had stumbled onto Negan, I think things might have gone down differently. I'm not sure how, exactly, but I think Rick being dead inside would have lead to either Negan or Rick being dead at the start of all this. Of course, I think Negan would have reacted differently to the group as well. He might not have felt the need to torture them to get them in line. Who knows.

    But the fact that they just recently experienced hope makes this a very different scenario. Yes, it's a bigger blow now, but Rick has something to hold onto, deep within himself that can pull them out of the pit of misery. That small speck of hope may need to get reawakened by Carl or the Kingdom or Carol (my money's on Carol, because it lines up with her journey, too), and it may take a whole season to get there, but when it does, he's going to fulfill his promise to Negan.

    I hope it does take all season, btw, since so far Negan is the best villain they've had.
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    on 1477297260:

    Okay, I'm going to reveal just how dense I am, but all the stuff in the RV, was that all in Rick's mind or did it really happen? I think it was all in his mind, but the way the episode played out, I'm not entirely certain. The editing was confusing.

    Overall, a really rough episode, even if I knew in advance who was going to get it. Seeing it play out was pretty distressing.

    Jeffrey Dean Morgan is pretty awesome as Negan though. As sadistic and twisted as he is, you cannot stop watching the guy.


    The dreamy editing and the foggy visuals were all just there to mirror Rick's state of mind, but the stuff in the RV definitely happened.
  • rittchard
    GT Member
    I guess I was "lucky" that I was pretty much emotionally prepared for the outcome (see my Spoiler predictions above). I don't know if it would have been better to watch it "cold" with no expectations, or if it would have just been too heart breaking. Either way it was still a pretty incredible piece of television, just riveting from start to finish. With all the arm-chop teases throughout, I thought for sure poor Carl was gonna take it for Rick. The acting and direction was just all around fantastic.

    I really appreciated the extra long Talking Dead to help bring the emotions to closure, it would have been hard to process all that without it.

    I think the biggest thing for me was Steven Yuen saying he wanted the death to stay with Glenn, as it was so pivotal in the comics he didn't want to give that up to another character. Who knows if he really meant that completely, but I appreciated the sentiment.


    I have to disagree that the show is just following into the same repetitive themes. I think as this season unfolds, it will play out differently than people might imagine. Sure there are some shared elements with the Governor storyline, but really he was small potatoes compared to Negan. Basically our "star group" is discovering the world outside is a lot bigger than what they thought. Their experiences having survived "outside" for so long has made them pretty awesome in our eyes, but not so much in the bigger world. Don't forget they spent a lot of time just hunkered down in camps, Hershel's farm and the prison with very little outside interaction. How they fit in and adapt and eventually help to evolve within a society filled with actual people are all major thematic changes from the earlier seasons.

    As the producers mentioned last night, this episode was kind of the reset button to help launch and emotionally drive the next big set of storylines. And I think fans are really going to enjoy it.
  • jdevlin24t
    GT Editor
    I think this had to happen for the main cast to progress. They got to a point where they were damn near unstoppable. They had nowhere to go. Negan brought them down to Earth. Now they have something to work for and there's more roomph for character development.

    I will say the way they killed Glenn was mishandled. It was unnecessary to have his skull caved in, eye popping out, and mumbling incoherently. I don't mind that the character died, but the "torture porn" was too much.
  • Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    Glenn's death was not mishandled because they followed the same imagery and events of the comic. Glenn's death in the comic was a watershed moment in that medium so the show was pretty much obligated to be faithful to the original material.
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    Carol's reaction to Renaissance Fairburg was pretty perfect, although I was surprised to see her back to her old fake-nice ways, given the dramatic shift she went through at the end of last season (which is clearly still going on, given the zombies-as-people hallucinations she's experiencing).

    It was nice seeing the Bullshit King see straight through her bullshit. However, I have to wonder if his artificial throne will be able to hold up over multiple episodes, from a viewer standpoint. Maybe Carol will rub off on him (and vice versa), and he'll stop with the pretentious verbiage. It just seems silly, honestly. Carol called that out immediately, though, so the creative team is certainly aware of it.

    And maybe Carol and the King are going to hook up, being two sides of the same coin, but damned if I wasn't seeing some Morgan Carol love forming in this episode, which is something I wouldn't have thought much about previously. I could definitely see them growing old in the apocalypse together (certainly it's a better pairing that Rick and Micchone...blech).

    Loved the pomegranate stuff. Bitter on the outside, but sweet inside and worth the effort...who does that remind me of?
  • Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    After the relentless dark violence of last week, this was a welcome change of tone. Ezekiel's right hand man, Jerry, was all sorts of awesome.
  • rittchard
    GT Member
    on 1477929842:

    Carol's reaction to Renaissance Fairburg was pretty perfect, although I was surprised to see her back to her old fake-nice ways, given the dramatic shift she went through at the end of last season (which is clearly still going on, given the zombies-as-people hallucinations she's experiencing).

    It was nice seeing the Bullshit King see straight through her bullshit. However, I have to wonder if his artificial throne will be able to hold up over multiple episodes, from a viewer standpoint. Maybe Carol will rub off on him (and vice versa), and he'll stop with the pretentious verbiage. It just seems silly, honestly. Carol called that out immediately, though, so the creative team is certainly aware of it.

    And maybe Carol and the King are going to hook up, being two sides of the same coin, but damned if I wasn't seeing some Morgan Carol love forming in this episode, which is something I wouldn't have thought much about previously. I could definitely see them growing old in the apocalypse together (certainly it's a better pairing that Rick and Micchone...blech).

    Loved the pomegranate stuff. Bitter on the outside, but sweet inside and worth the effort...who does that remind me of?


    Hehe, good catch. I didn't notice it until the actor who played Ezekiel pointed it out on Talking Dead. Speaking of which, nice ep of TD with the tiger costume and the scrotum tie, it was hilarious and a nice way to exhale after last week.

    I'm pretty sure they are setting up Ezekial + Carol, based on the actor's response last night. Plus he was with Michonne in the comic so it makes sense a suitable replacement would be a character that died in the comics and is extremely popular :) Daryl will have to get some other younger chick lol.
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    Well, thanks a lot Cosplay Daryl, now I've got "Easy Street" stuck in my head.

    I usually like these episodes that are hyperfocused on a small selection of main characters, and this was no exception. I was surprised to see D take the food so quickly at the start, but it seemed like time had already passed. He's beefier than I would have guessed. I can see why folks are hot for him, I guess.

    I really loved the layered story of Cosplay Daryl and his er, wife, too. Where pieces of what happened to them kind of came together as the episode progressed. I almost didn't need Negan's expositiony exposition.

    One question, though: I couldn't make out what was in that photograph. I assume we were supposed to be able to tell what it was. Can someone clue me in?
  • disarm
    GT Member
    on 1478500888:
    One question, though: I couldn't make out what was in that photograph. I assume we were supposed to be able to tell what it was. Can someone clue me in?


    I'm pretty sure that was a picture of the remnants of Glen. Dwight told him that what happened to his friend was his fault, then gave him the picture. Daryl broke down because it was his outburst that led to Negan killing another person after Abraham.
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    on 1478528751:

    on 1478500888:
    One question, though: I couldn't make out what was in that photograph. I assume we were supposed to be able to tell what it was. Can someone clue me in?


    I'm pretty sure that was a picture of the remnants of Glen. Dwight told him that what happened to his friend was his fault, then gave him the picture. Daryl broke down because it was his outburst that led to Negan killing another person after Abraham.


    That was my hunch, but I couldn't make out anything.
  • rittchard
    GT Member
    on 1478530502:

    on 1478528751:

    on 1478500888:
    One question, though: I couldn't make out what was in that photograph. I assume we were supposed to be able to tell what it was. Can someone clue me in?


    I'm pretty sure that was a picture of the remnants of Glen. Dwight told him that what happened to his friend was his fault, then gave him the picture. Daryl broke down because it was his outburst that led to Negan killing another person after Abraham.


    That was my hunch, but I couldn't make out anything.


    Couldn't make anything out, but yeah the presumption is it was the polaroid they took of Glenn.

    Generally I like these kind of side episodes, but I actually found myself a little bored last night. I know they had to establish the Dwight character and storyline at some point, and I'm sure Daryl fans were happy to have a full episode dedicated to him, but I just didn't get too into it. I think I would have liked it more if I had actually recognized the actress playing his wife or had better recollection of the episode where they introduced her, but I had no clue until after they discussed it on Talking Dead.

    Looking forward to getting back to the main group again next week, and unless I heard wrong we are getting 90 minutes!
  • Roman
    GT Member
    once all the killing was done in the season opener and Negan's men were leaving that area there was a guy taking pics. Blink and you might have missed it.
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    on 1478623633:

    once all the killing was done in the season opener and Negan's men were leaving that area there was a guys taking pics. Blink and you might have missed it.



    I did remember that, once we were talking about it, but I totally forgot in the moment.
  • Mystic95Z
    GT Member
    :icon_biggrin:
  • Blackjack
    GT Member
    I'm already bored with Negan -- I think because he just has no backstory yet? Or did I miss it? So far he just seems like an annoying jackass with no particular reason for being that way. He's just ... Negan.

    I'm not saying he needs a zombie daughter in his closet, or a sword through his eyeball to build empathy for him, I just think he'd be more interesting if there was more to him than just being an intimidating jerk. He reminds me of many movie villains where you're just supposed to hate the character because he's... a bad man.

    TWD's also turned one of its most appealing characters (Darryl) mute, and feels like with two other popular characters killed off, feels like characters that I found appealing as supporting cast are being asked more to "carry" the show. And Rick on his every other season arc of "maybe I can just live in peace and not by ripping out bad mens' throats out with my teeth?" -- which I don't believe for even a second. :icon_smile:

    So ehhhh, I think soon I shall spend more time PC gaming Sunday nights, and who can complain about that? :icon_smile: The ratings are still fine, the show won't miss me at all. Perhaps this is one of those seasons where if I watch the whole season on binge mode later, I might better appreciate what Gimple and Co. are trying to do.
  • Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    I think Negan's great. Most interesting TWD villain for me, by far. Frankly, I don't really even want a backstory on him. I'm sure we'll at least get hints of something, but I wonder if that won't weaken him.

    At a couple of points last night I started noticing a pattern in Negan's smile, tongue, bob the knees and emphasize a syllable rhythm, and I did start to tire of that, then something would happen, on- or off-screen, and that whole thing just dropped. Negan's some scary shit.

    That said, I think he's going to get Wicked Witch of the Wested at the end (not the melting part, but the bit where the minions cheer because someone finally took the big bad down), and I can't believe Rick's not seeing that. I think he's blinded by his fear. However, I think Rosita is going to do something stupid, which may put his already slow path to bad-ass recovery in jeopardy. Or it may speed it up.

    I entirely believe how Rick got to this spot. I thought the moment where Negan saw the video of Rick first getting to Alexandria and realized that he wouldn't have messed with that guy was very important. Rick realized it, too. Now he has to come to the realization that what he was trying to teach the Alexandrians all along is where he needs to get to himself: Being in a society, but ready to defend it at any cost. He has to get to a point, where he can fuse the new Rick with the old one.

    The same goes for Darryl. Although he's been close to mute for a long time anyway, he does seem neutered, which is worse, but that's going to make his reawakening all the sweeter. Unless he needs to die to snap Rick out of it. That'll suck. I don't think they'll do that.

    Best moment for me last night was creepy Negan telling the priest he's creepy as shit.
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