[TV] The Walking Dead Season 8 (Careful there will be Spoilers!)

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  • Jimmy the Fish
    Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    This was the most unstisfying season thus far. Between the nonsense with Glenn "dying/haha fooled you", the neutering of Carol, the incessant "you have a choice" pacifism of Morgan, and just unbelievable acts/decisions of stupidity by a collection of characters who should know better, the cliffhanger ending was the pinnacle of everything that sucked about the season. The explanation by Gimple and Kirkman during the aftershow was an insult to the people who have been watching since season 1. The show's success has really deluded them where their ability to tell the story has taken a back seat to their desire to be clever.

    The only faint saving grace for me was Jeffrey Dean Morgan's portrayal of Negan. His dialogue is well written and he is such a charismatic and interesting character that I do want to see more of him. As for who was on the receiving end of Lucille, I could care less at this point, and social media being what it is, the whole world will know long before the next episode airs, so screw you Gimple and Kirkman. :finger:
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    Well, I don't agree with most of that, and in fact, I thought the season was so satisfying that this finale was a sharp disappointment. As mentioned earlier, they earned the Glenn thing, IMO, but you can get away with something like that once. It was cheap to pull it again with Daryl (which is probably why they seemed to add the "You'll be all right" comment in post production), but this was out of line.

    I've really enjoyed Carol's shift. She was building to a snap of some sort, and I wasn't expecting the break to go this way. Teaming her with Morgan for a little Kung Fu trekking could be interesting (though I don't always think they've written Morgan well, I do like the message he's trying to bring, and I think it's important for TWD).
  • Ironrod
    Ironrod
    GT Member
    I didn't realize how much I resented being manipulated this season until the very end of the finale, when I realized how little I care. We knew someone was going to buy the farm. Now they are going to make me wait 6 months to find out who? Screw you...I don't care who shot JR.

    I'll be back next season because I'm hooked, but I won't spend 6 months arguing over clues and speculating. Whatevs.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    on 1459824839:

    I didn't realize how much I resented being manipulated this season until the very end of the finale, when I realized how little I care. We knew someone was going to buy the farm. Now they are going to make me wait 6 months to find out who? Screw you...I don't care who shot JR.

    I'll be back next season because I'm hooked, but I won't spend 6 months arguing over clues and speculating. Whatevs.


    Classiest (yet still snipey) address of this was in a NYT recap I saw.


    I'll mention here that I don't have a theory about who got it in the end, mostly because I don't feel compelled to reward the gamesmanship by playing along.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    on 1459804034:

    Well, I don't agree with most of that, and in fact, I thought the season was so satisfying that this finale was a sharp disappointment. As mentioned earlier, they earned the Glenn thing, IMO, but you can get away with something like that once. It was cheap to pull it again with Daryl (which is probably why they seemed to add the "You'll be all right" comment in post production), but this was out of line.

    I've really enjoyed Carol's shift. She was building to a snap of some sort, and I wasn't expecting the break to go this way. Teaming her with Morgan for a little Kung Fu trekking could be interesting (though I don't always think they've written Morgan well, I do like the message he's trying to bring, and I think it's important for TWD).


    I'm totally in line with Bullwinkle here. I loved this season in general, pretty much every episode had me on the seat of my pants. Yes, the characters did some irritating things that didn't make "sense" but all in all I think they followed thru with some of their big themes very well. I read a review in the LA Times which had similar complaints about the characters' actions being "unrealistic" but I think that's always been a central part of this show: there is NO way for anyone to flat out declare what is "realistic" or not in an apocalyptic situation so extreme, where your son has to kill his mother and then gets his eye shot out, where you have to bite into someone's face to keep your son from getting gang raped. By all accounts anyone still alive in this world is pretty much "crazy" (at least a little) by normal standards because there's no other way to cope/survive. This arc had the group going from the vast extremes of being "out there" to the comforts of sex in the shower, and that gave them a sense of safety and overconfidence that they hadn't had in years. So much so that some of them, like Carol, start to question the morality of doing anything to survive, and literally are breaking down mentally over that. And others like Rick/Carl start to think they are invincible. So really they did need to get taken down a peg or two. They are lucky the Saviors didn't just wipe them all out, as they clearly have the numbers to do so.

    All that said, I didn't buy the producers/writers excuse about the "cliffhanger" and how the story doesn't begin til next season. I have major doubts this was the way they always planned it, I suspect they changed their mind or couldn't decide what to do. I wonder if they had decided earlier on swapping in Daryl to die, but after seeing the reactions to Glenn they were afraid to alienate fans too severely. Or they figured with the delay, the impact of whoever dies would be lessened. Particularly if it's one of the lesser characters like Rosita or Aaron. What I did like that they said was that they know they owe the audience something really spectacular to justify this decision, so come October they had really better deliver.
  • Crusis
    Crusis
    GT Member
    They should have given Maggie some ibuprofen and stayed home. TWD logic is - weird.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    on 1459930789:

    They should have given Maggie some ibuprofen and stayed home. TWD logic is - weird.


    While I agree that they've made some stupid decisions this season, that wasn't one of them. The pregnant lady was very sick. You go to find the doctor. They'd travelled to the place before, and we didn't even see the trip, really, which implies it was a (relatively) easy journey.

    As for other dumb mistakes (like the one that would have avoided the trip all together), I'd like to say that they're trying to chalk it up to the gang getting complacent. That's definitely been a through line for this half season. However, they didn't really connect the complacency to the dumb mistakes in the writing, so it seems they just needed certain beats to happen in the story. So in the end, yeah, dumb mistakes.

    But apart from this terrible last episode (and really just the last moment of the last episode...the stuff getting there was pretty good, I thought), I thought they mostly upped their game this season. And so, I've been letting the dumb mistakes go. Filling in the complacency stuff as we went along.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    This article expresses well how I felt about the finale:

    http://io9.gizmodo.com/why-is-the-walking-deads-cliffhanger-so-much-worse-than-1769625643

    I guess it's partly my own fault for reading all the interviews, etc. that created the expectation that someone would be definitively leaving the show after the finale. I suppose if I had no knowledge of the comic books and had not followed any media, that ending might be considered an exciting cliffhanger.
  • Zinfan
    Zinfan
    GT Member
    Put me down in the camp that didn't care for any of this half season. I guess I'm tuning out on the show, when I watch it now I fast forward past the "oh zombie attack, will Carol/Rick/Daryl/etc. fight it off?" Of course they will and why spend time watching what you know will happen? While watching the final scene I was wondering who be killed and realized it really didn't matter to me at all, I've lost connection with any of the main characters and their stories. I'm sure I'll check out the next season but I'll be watching this hour long show in something like 10 minutes of actual time and the rest at fast forward.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    I just read a Cracked article called 5 Movie And TV Plots That Mean The Writer's Out Of Ideas

    The first entry was for "Plots That Are Essentially Clickbait," and I thought this phrase summed it up really well:

    ...it's the plot version of "YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHO JUST DIED! CLICK HERE TO FIND OUT!" Cliff-hangers are about "What happens next?" -- not "What just happened?" If your story is worth telling, you don't have to do that shit.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    I don't think the writers ran out of ideas or did it deliberately as a ratings stunt. If anything, they knew it would piss people off so they made sure they were ready to do immediate damage control on Talking Dead the same night. While I suspect we will never know exactly what transpired, I still believe the original script had a specific person dying (probably Daryl). Then after they saw the rabid reaction to Glenn's death tease, they might have changed their minds and gone back to re-negotiate and re-plan things for next season, or something like that. (Incidentally, interesting that all of a sudden the actor has his own show riding bikes across the country.) Who knows, maybe one of the key actors themselves volunteered off the show at the very end and that changed things up (for example, see my Michonne theory).
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    on 1461174018:

    I don't think the writers ran out of ideas or did it deliberately as a ratings stunt. If anything, they knew it would piss people off so they made sure they were ready to do immediate damage control on Talking Dead the same night. While I suspect we will never know exactly what transpired, I still believe the original script had a specific person dying (probably Daryl). Then after they saw the rabid reaction to Glenn's death tease, they might have changed their minds and gone back to re-negotiate and re-plan things for next season, or something like that. (Incidentally, interesting that all of a sudden the actor has his own show riding bikes across the country.) Who knows, maybe one of the key actors themselves volunteered off the show at the very end and that changed things up (for example, see my Michonne theory).


    It's not that they ran out of ideas. It's that they didn't want to commit to a decision, which is just as waffly and lame.

    I'm guessing that they knew it would piss people off only after already having filmed it and showed it to people (including, likely, a focus group), which is why they scrambled to justify it on Talking Dead.

    However, especially given how the cast were going on and on about how awful it was to film, it does seem completely plausible that not only did the original script have a character locked in, but that they may have even filmed it, then had second thoughts or, as you say, had an actor want to back out which changed things.

    OTOH, Chandler's twitter comment makes that less likely, but maybe he worded it carefully or was kept in the dark.

    Or maybe they filmed multiple possible endings (seems unlikely given the special effects expense, but maybe they thought it was worth it for the secrecy).

    None of these possibilities change the fact that it was a terrible decision.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    on 1461174765:

    on 1461174018:

    I don't think the writers ran out of ideas or did it deliberately as a ratings stunt. If anything, they knew it would piss people off so they made sure they were ready to do immediate damage control on Talking Dead the same night. While I suspect we will never know exactly what transpired, I still believe the original script had a specific person dying (probably Daryl). Then after they saw the rabid reaction to Glenn's death tease, they might have changed their minds and gone back to re-negotiate and re-plan things for next season, or something like that. (Incidentally, interesting that all of a sudden the actor has his own show riding bikes across the country.) Who knows, maybe one of the key actors themselves volunteered off the show at the very end and that changed things up (for example, see my Michonne theory).


    It's not that they ran out of ideas. It's that they didn't want to commit to a decision, which is just as waffly and lame.

    I'm guessing that they knew it would piss people off only after already having filmed it and showed it to people (including, likely, a focus group), which is why they scrambled to justify it on Talking Dead.

    However, especially given how the cast were going on and on about how awful it was to film, it does seem completely plausible that not only did the original script have a character locked in, but that they may have even filmed it, then had second thoughts or, as you say, had an actor want to back out which changed things.

    OTOH, Chandler's twitter comment makes that less likely, but maybe he worded it carefully or was kept in the dark.

    Or maybe they filmed multiple possible endings (seems unlikely given the special effects expense, but maybe they thought it was worth it for the secrecy).

    None of these possibilities change the fact that it was a terrible decision.


    Agreed! I heard the main producer lady has also claimed she doesn't know who it is. But as you said, it's plausible that's just because they changed or didn't film the original ending, or they are in the middle of re-negotiating contracts and leaving all options open.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    Hey, check this out. Andrea's still whining.

    'I Had An 8-Year Deal!!’


    Soon after showrunner Frank Darabont was fired from "The Walking Dead," so were two of his actor friends. Jeff DeMunn and Laurie Holden, who both had roles in Darabont’s “The Mist” before joining the season-one cast, both had their characters – Dale and Andrea – written out of the series by replacement showrunner Glenn Mazzara.

    “I had an 8-year deal,” Holden told fans gathered this weekend at New Jersey’s Walker Stalker convention. “I was supposed to be there until the end. I was supposed to end up with Rick.

    “I was supposed to save Woodbury on a horse, and I was buying a house in Atlanta. I got the call at 10 o’ clock the night before, while I was shooting, from the showrunner, who is no longer a part of The Walking Dead, saying that they couldn’t write the episode and that he was killing my character.

    “So we all got the script everybody on the set was sobbing. I felt like I got shot. None of it was supposed to happen the way it did.”

    In the series Andrea’s ex Phil “The Governor” Blake bound Andrea to a chair and left her in a locked room with Milton Mamet, whom Blake had mortally stabbed. Milton died and Zombie Milton fed on Andrea.

    In the comics Andrea, introduced in issue two, outlived Glen and is boning the bejesus out of her boyfriend Rick Grimes.


    She really doesn't get how annoying she was on the show. The showrunner (who maybe she thinks got fired for getting rid of her, or at the least, got what he deserved) made absolutely the right choice in killing her off.

    I was trying to think if there was anyone in the current lineup that I couldn't stand. Once they killed off Mayor People-Think-of-Me-as-the-Jewish-Meryl-Streep, I don't think I hated anybody. Even Fistbump NotCop grew on me. There are some weaker characters, sure, but no one I actively despise. Nice going on killing the irritants, Walking Dead!

    I'm sure there's someone I've forgotten...


    EDIT: Oh, yeah, it might have been that JSS girl. If they make her a villain, though, that'll be okay.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    I always liked the Andrea character (more from the comics), but also the actress that played her. I do agree they really wrote her poorly her last season with the Governor, but that could so easily have been turned around. Seriously all they had to do was give her her sniper powers from the comic and she would have immediately jumped up on peoples' like list. Basically they stole her big moments and powers and gave them to Carol and Sasha. And then they stole her sexy time and gave it to Michonne lol. I guess ultimately it worked out, as it really strengthened Carol's role and gave rise to Richonne, but it still sucks for the actress.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    This is not really a spoiler but more of a conjecture/spoiler. Based on who supposedly has been in the cast for the first episodes of Season 7, Negan's victim is likely:

    BOTH Glenn and Abraham!!! :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:

    I also watched some long analysis on Youtube which indicated it was Glenn.


    Anyway, I've gone back to watch Season 1 from the beginning, and wow is it ever a different show. I had forgotten how many they started out with. The only character who hasn't changed too much is Daryl. Carol is so freaking annoying in the first two seasons. I love knowing how she evolves and I'm excited to watch how it happens. In fact almost everyone is whiny and bitchy about everything all the time, it's pretty hilarious thinking about how much worse it's gonna get.

    I just started Season 2 and I loved Maggie's horseback scene. It was interesting as I was watching FTWD, I was thinking it was finally getting better. Then I watched a couple of the old TWD episodes and realized it was still a long ways away.
  • Scraper
    Scraper
    GT Member
    I wonder if there are any theories that no one dies. There are several ways this could realistically happen. Sudden walker heard or maybe they somehow manage to get the upper hand. Who knows, but it's an acceptable outcome if you ask me. They somehow escape and the stage is then set for total war.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    on 1473777344:

    I wonder if there are any theories that no one dies. There are several ways this could realistically happen. Sudden walker heard or maybe they somehow manage to get the upper hand. Who knows, but it's an acceptable outcome if you ask me. They somehow escape and the stage is then set for total war.


    I think there would be a bigger riot than if Darryl's the one to go. That would feel like an insane cop out, IMO. All that tension, making you wait months and then: saved by a deus ex machina?! No, thank you.
  • Jimmy the Fish
    Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    on 1473777344:

    I wonder if there are any theories that no one dies. There are several ways this could realistically happen. Sudden walker heard or maybe they somehow manage to get the upper hand. Who knows, but it's an acceptable outcome if you ask me. They somehow escape and the stage is then set for total war.


    If that were to happen, the shark would have jumped so hard, it'd be in orbit.
  • Punisher
    Punisher
    GT Member
    on 1473791194:

    on 1473777344:

    I wonder if there are any theories that no one dies. There are several ways this could realistically happen. Sudden walker heard or maybe they somehow manage to get the upper hand. Who knows, but it's an acceptable outcome if you ask me. They somehow escape and the stage is then set for total war.


    If that were to happen, the shark would have jumped so hard, it'd be in orbit.

    You have just described the plot for Sharknado 10.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    on 1473794676:

    on 1473791194:

    on 1473777344:

    I wonder if there are any theories that no one dies. There are several ways this could realistically happen. Sudden walker heard or maybe they somehow manage to get the upper hand. Who knows, but it's an acceptable outcome if you ask me. They somehow escape and the stage is then set for total war.


    If that were to happen, the shark would have jumped so hard, it'd be in orbit.

    You have just described the plot for Sharknado 10.


    Er, that actually really did happen in Sharknado 3.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    Trailer for Season Premiere

    It's all Morgan, basically.

    AYFKM?! Of course they're going to do this. Of course they are. It is so blindingly obvious that it's something they shouldn't at all do, that it didn't even occur to me that they might.

    They're going to make you wait for the resolution to what shouldn't have ever been a cliff hanger. Maybe a whole episode. Hopefully not, but maybe. Hell, maybe they'll stretch it out until the mid-season premiere, just to teach us a lesson or something...I don't know what the hell is going on in their brains anymore.

    Oh, and guess who wasn't in that trailer at all, by the way. That's right, Carol. So seeing what happened to her could be a second episode. Then they've got to deal with the Kingdom. Then Carol will get shoved behind a door and Morgan has a "tiger or the lady" dilemma. Then the girl following Morgan (was that Fistbump Notcop or the annoying teenager who may have betrayed the gang last season?) will get an episode. Then she'll ride in on a second tiger she found, but this one is a zombie, but she trained it! And then they escape the Kingdom, only to find out it was contained in an even larger Kingdom the whole time, run by that dude's brother...who is Negan. Duh duh duh. Tune in for more in 2017!
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    LOL, I don't think they are that crazy, Bull. I think that was a specially tailored trailer featuring the Kingdom, and showing Ezekial, only because they don't want to give away who died. The previous trailer I saw had Carol in it as well, and a lot of other stuff again not including anything involving any of the victims.

    From everything I've heard, they will show/resolve who dies pretty quickly and then move on fairly quickly as well to get this year's plots moving.
  • Bullwinkle
    Bullwinkle
    GT Member
    Man, I hope so.
  • Jimmy the Fish
    Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    And with that, season 2 comes to an end, with everything pretty much left as a cliffhanger.

    Man, this show is so wildly inconsistent. The whole premise of starting out the season on the boat seemed pretty interesting and they did take it in some new directions. I think the problem with the show is that most of the characters were terribly written. One note personalities who often did completely reckless and illogical things, as well as weird liberties with the timeline of both the progression of the apocalypse and the immediate events directly affecting the characters. One thing that really annoyed me was the notion that smearing yourself with zombie blood and giblets would allow you to walk among the dead untouched. In the Walking Dead, it was used as a tactic of last resort and that show always made it seem like a very risky thing to do that invited things to go very wrong. Yet on Fear, it's done so matter of factly that no one even thinks twice about it. That strategy was taken to a ridiculous extreme in the final episode too and just made me cringe.

    However, I thought the two hour finale for the most part really redeemed the whole season. First of all, they crammed a ton of stuff into the finale, with the pace really amped up. Second, more importantly to me, they completely changed the nature of the mom and dad characters and opened up lots of new possibilities with them that hopefully will evolve them beyond the one dimensional idiots they were up to now. The dad (Travis) in particular could be headed in a VERY dark direction. The kids though are still kind of 'meh'. Enough good stuff happened at the end that I'll continue watching when season 3 rolls around.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    Just in case anyone is confused, Jimmy is referring to Fear the Walking Dead - I agree with the assessment wholeheartedly. Particularly the thing with the blood, they use it so cheaply it's crazy. Having just re-watched TWD Season 1, remember Rick takes a long time to hack a body up and put the guts all over him, and even then it starts to run out when there's some rain. Here they just take a few seconds and it seems like they are totally immune, and apparently everyone can do it at the drop of a dime. Overall, the show still doesn't reach the levels of the original for me in terms of making me care about the characters, but in general the back half was a lot more fun to watch.

    Ofelia! Yeah! She went from a nothing character to what I'm guessing is Fear's version of Michonne. At least I hope so. Also enjoying the sister's level ups in personality and skillz.

    So glad they killed Chris, I couldn't stand him. Although his character was just finally becoming interesting, so I suppose that might have been a missed opportunity. Ditto with his "bros" - I feel like there was a more interesting story there that was wasted.

    Still can't stand Travis, although watching him turn psycho was pretty fun. I'd be fine if they eliminated him. Ditto on Madison, she seems all over the place now.

    Druggy Son is starting to grow on me, and I liked his girlfriend too, hope she isn't dead. Same sentiment with Strand.


    Here's hoping for a reunion back in the good ol USA!
  • Jimmy the Fish
    Jimmy the Fish
    GT Member
    Oh damn, I resurrected the wrong thread. Gah, I suck.

    Well...we're a couple of weeks away from the season premiere. Wonder who Negan whacks. :paranoid:

    On Geeking Out, Greg Nicotero said that the premiere will be the most emotionally gut wrenching episode ever. We'll see.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    on 1476026725:


    So if I'm reading it correctly they are saying everyone on Rick's left is safe because the blood splatter is from his right? So Sasha, Aaron, Carl and Eugene are all safe I guess. Not too surprising.

    So Maggie, Abraham and Michonne are in the clearest spots, the others seem too far for splatter but who knows.

    If the rumors hold true, Abraham gets it first, and then Glenn either also dies or dies later.
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