Guild Wars 2 (official review on pp 21)

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  • skystride
    skystride
    GT Member
    Too late, I'm already hyped up to the max. Even if it's just MOTS Guild Wars (which doesn't seem likely), I will be very happy as long as it has as fun a class and combat system as the original game.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    on 1274323220:

    Too late, I'm already hyped up to the max. Even if it's just MOTS Guild Wars (which doesn't seem likely), I will be very happy as long as it has as fun a class and combat system as the original game.


    Yeah ditto from me in terms of hype factor. GW remains one of my all-time favorite games, and Arena one of the few developers that pretty much delivered everything they promised. That isn't to say it was the perfect game (plenty of things I wanted to see them change or improve), and while it could be coincidence or false promises, one by one they've been addressing every single complaint I had. Can't ask for more than that... except they just won't release sooner which is killing me :icon_razz:
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    More info on how they are fleshing out individual vs. world storylines. If they can pull half of this stuff off effectively it will very likely become my favorite MMORPG of all time.

    http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/personal-stories/personal-story-overview/
  • Huw the Poo
    Huw the Poo
    GT Member
    C'mon Rittchard, who are you trying to kid? I think GW2 is already your favourite MMORPG - and mine! ;)
  • skystride
    skystride
    GT Member
    Reading about companions in Old Republic made me think about the hero and henchman system of GW1. I hope they bring this back in GW2. I have a feeling they may opt to dump henchmen and just have a hero system. I really like the idea of being able to use AI party members to do challenging content when you don't want to group. More MMOs need to offer this option. They could also add customizable AI sort of like Final Fantasy 12/13/Dragon Age.
  • Huw the Poo
    Huw the Poo
    GT Member
    I really hope they don't use Heroes, although they almost certainly will. To me, Heroes killed off what little social aspect there was to Guild Wars. If you weren't in a guild, you'd be playing on your own.
  • skystride
    skystride
    GT Member
    on 1275078943:

    I really hope they don't use Heroes, although they almost certainly will. To me, Heroes killed off what little social aspect there was to Guild Wars. If you weren't in a guild, you'd be playing on your own.


    This doesn't bother me since I play MMOs almost exclusively in a guild and PUGging is very rare.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    I thought i read somewhere you'd have only a single companion/hero, but i could be imagining that.
  • PR_GMR
    PR_GMR
    GT Member
    on 1276111287:


    Looks awesome! I went to GuildWars2.com to check out the videos. But only managed to see the first one (Sever Artery, Gash and Final Thrust) before the other ones were updated to Flash Player 9. Ugh. Can't see the rest until I get home tonight.. But the one look TREMENDOUS!!!
  • skystride
    skystride
    GT Member
    Wow after watching the Elementalist videos, I thought there's no way Warrior melee combat could look as good. I was wrong.
  • PR_GMR
    PR_GMR
    GT Member
    Watched the rest of the warrior videos--Just total Bad-assery!! I think I want to play a Charr warrior. :nod:
  • Roguetad
    Roguetad
    GT Member
    Wow 8| The warrior vids were awesome.
  • Harkonis
    Harkonis
    GT Member
    on 1276127127:

    Wow after watching the Elementalist videos, I thought there's no way Warrior melee combat could look as good. I was wrong.


    careful sky, you were this hyped with both WAR and Aion
  • PR_GMR
    PR_GMR
    GT Member
    on 1276140024:

    on 1276127127:

    Wow after watching the Elementalist videos, I thought there's no way Warrior melee combat could look as good. I was wrong.


    careful sky, you were this hyped with both WAR and Aion


    Yeah, but WAR and Aion weren't developed by ArenaNet.. who was sold over 6 millions copies of 'Guild Wars'.. and they're a deveoper that will release this 'when it's done'.. crafted, and finished. :icon_smile:
  • The Rocketman
    The Rocketman
    GT Member
    Wow, I came into this thread expecting nothing, and now, after I've read the developer's thoughts... Yes, this is the way a MMORPG of the future should be done!
    Here's hoping they can pull it off! :thumbsup:
  • skystride
    skystride
    GT Member
    on 1276140024:

    careful sky, you were this hyped with both WAR and Aion


    I still think WAR is a great game and if it was completely F2P like Guild Wars, I'd still be playing it for the Scenarios.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    on 1276185565:

    on 1276140024:

    careful sky, you were this hyped with both WAR and Aion


    I still think WAR is a great game and if it was completely F2P like Guild Wars, I'd still be playing it for the Scenarios.


    Agreed on this, WAR scenarios were always a blast.

    That said, I don't think any of us were as hyped with WAR or Aion. Sure we were all excited about WAR (less so with Aion), but we knew enough about the game design elements that we weren't drooling in anticipation. WAR we knew was serving up some minor innovations like scenarios, castle takeovers, and public quests, but nothing nearly as ambitious and innovative as what Arena is proposing with GW2. I have complete confidence that these guys are going to pull off at least a good portion of what they claim; they've proven themselves already with GW1 and all the improvements they made there.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    Holy crap just saw the videos, the animation is absolutely amazing, it's like watching an animated film. As far as I can tell, that's actual gameplay footage right? Or intended to be gameplay-like footage at least? (I don't think anyone would be working the camera quite like that while they were actually playing.)

    Also like the stuff on traits, nothing extraordinary here but it sounds like the system is built for experimentation in different builds (and with no penalties or grind aspects added to it), which I personally love.

    We want experimentation with traits to be fun and engaging, so we've made the rules for changing traits extremely flexible. With no in-game cost, you can respec at will, outside of combat. This means you are open to experiment with what works and what doesn't work on the fly, without having to go back to town or worry about if you have enough gold.

    Whether it's adventuring around Tyria trying to stop dragons or fighting other players in World PvP - the trait system is there to experiment with, to have fun with, and to allow you to feel like you are actively mastering the profession you have chosen. Like Guild Wars, there are countless unique and clever combinations to be found.
  • Roguetad
    Roguetad
    GT Member
    One of the many small things I really appreciated about GW1 was being able to respec without paying silly scaling fees or penalties. Being able to do that outside of towns, out of combat, would be great. I don't understand why most games look at respecs as money sinks. Who cares how many times someone wants to respec their character? Oh I can spend 1,000 gold to have 2 specs? Super. It's like they're intentionally penalizing creative players for experimenting with different builds. That makes no sense to me.
  • Huw the Poo
    Huw the Poo
    GT Member
    It wasn't always so - I'm pretty sure that for the first year, at least, respecs really had to be earned. But yeah, I agree with you. Respecs really ought to flow a lot more freely in MMORPGs. Guild Wars is particularly suited to it.
  • Huw the Poo
    Huw the Poo
    GT Member
    Not sure what to make of that. While it's great that you won't have to wait for certain types of player to join your PUG before doing a quest is viable any more, I personally really enjoy playing support classes. Although it sounds like you can still play support up to a point. We'll have to wait and see I suppose.

    I'll say one thing. Like Stardock with Elemental, I have absolute faith in ArenaNet and I'm confident that Guild Wars 2 will be something very special indeed.
  • Blackjack
    Blackjack
    GT Member
    Well, to me it is a little dangerously like Champions Online. There aren't really any classes there, and you mix and match skills pell-mell. I only have my open beta experience to go on, but I often felt lost as to how to mix the skills effectively. I could mix them to recreate a popular comic book character, sure, but I'd go get my arse beaten in constantly with ineffective skill mixes.

    This was while players around me complained the game was "too easy," and I was like "What the HECK am I doing wrong?" My L8 character was getting pounded into the ground, and theirs was wiping things out left and right. I liked the idea of "skills freedom" but rolling broken character after broken character was a big reason I lost interest in that.

    I think such a "hybrid" system can work if you give players enough guidance. I'm not real clear on if GW2's system is "every character is exactly the same and is equally good at everything and can use all the weapons in the game" (to me that sounds boring) or it's more "you can mix the skills to be just a little strong in certain areas."

    Personally, I like having classes, but I've liked games where you have a couple of different specialization routes within a class (the late Tabula Rasa comes to mind, and SWTOR seems to promise some of that), or a few different sub-classes within a class (AoC comes to mind -- you can be a Priest of Mithra if you really want a healing focus or choose more DPS style mages that can still heal decently).
  • Asharak
    Asharak
    GT Member
    on 1278612624:

    A different 'death' system


    I think there probably is the kernel of a good idea in there but most of this announcement is less revolutionary and more playing with semantics:

    when you die, you enter what is called a down state. In your down state, you have four skills you can use to try and take down your attackers, three dictated by your class, and one available to all classes.

    Should you manage to exact revenge before your consciousness meter runs out, you'll rally, getting back up on your feet and back into the game.

    If you do die, you can either wait for a player to revive you - all character classes in Guild Wars 2 can revive - or [t]ravel to any previously visited waypoint and revive there for a small fee.


    Put more clearly, what they're doing is adding a stage between fully-alive and completely-dead, the "down state", which appears to be tied to a timed "consciousness meter". It's not that there are no penalties for death, it's just that running out of health doesn't quite mean you're dead. As they admit in the very next sentence, if your consciousness meter runs out, then you really are dead and that death works pretty much like any other MMO: wait for the rez or teleport to a waypoint and run back to where you were.

    It's an interesting idea but I'm not entirely convinced that the extra complexity is worth it. If you want people to be able to fight after they run out of health, why not just give everyone a bunch of extra health to begin with? Have to wait to see how the "down-state" skills work, I suppose. If those really are interesting and different from "up-state" gameplay then maybe this is justified but if they're just things like "weakened punch" then this seems rather pointless.

    - Ash
  • CeeKay
    CeeKay
    GT Member
    help help! I'm mostly dead!
  • Destructor
    Destructor
    GT Member
    I see their 'not dead yet' tactic as a 'you're on the brink of death, yet you reach down to pull off a heroic comeback' thing. Like how Borderlands did it. I think it's a cool idea.
  • skystride
    skystride
    GT Member
    on 1278615351:

    I liked the idea of "skills freedom" but rolling broken character after broken character was a big reason I lost interest in that.

    I think such a "hybrid" system can work if you give players enough guidance. I'm not real clear on if GW2's system is "every character is exactly the same and is equally good at everything and can use all the weapons in the game" (to me that sounds boring) or it's more "you can mix the skills to be just a little strong in certain areas."


    Since you don't have to reroll in GW every time you make a mistake, I don't really see that problem happening. Also just because they said there won't be any archetype class doesn't mean there won't be character builds who are specialized at doing certain things. It difficult to imagine how a Mage loaded up on offensive skills will tank as well as a Warrior with lots of defensive skills. I think what they are trying to say is that if the Warrior in the party quits, then the Mage will be able to switch his skillset and become defensive. Thus removing the need to have a specific class mix to accomplish a goal.
  • rittchard
    rittchard
    GT Member
    on 1278624615:

    on 1278615351:

    I liked the idea of "skills freedom" but rolling broken character after broken character was a big reason I lost interest in that.

    I think such a "hybrid" system can work if you give players enough guidance. I'm not real clear on if GW2's system is "every character is exactly the same and is equally good at everything and can use all the weapons in the game" (to me that sounds boring) or it's more "you can mix the skills to be just a little strong in certain areas."


    Since you don't have to reroll in GW every time you make a mistake, I don't really see that problem happening. Also just because they said there won't be any archetype class doesn't mean there won't be character builds who are specialized at doing certain things. It difficult to imagine how a Mage loaded up on offensive skills will tank as well as a Warrior with lots of defensive skills. I think what they are trying to say is that if the Warrior in the party quits, then the Mage will be able to switch his skillset and become defensive. Thus removing the need to have a specific class mix to accomplish a goal.


    What he said! All these ideas sound wonderful to me - finally a developer willing to take a few chances and shake up the paradigm. As much as I enjoy playing support/healing classes, I love the idea that you won't *need* one to succeed, and that players themselves will be more valued than the class they are playing. There are more than enough traditional games out there with set defined roles and "holy triad" class structure, why not try something different?

    All that said, it still seems like if you decide steadfastly to play a support role, you'll be able to tweak and tune your character, and simply *play* in a manner so that you end up truly creating that role, the caveat being that your presence may not be absolutely essential to a party's success, but it might still make everything easier or more efficient.
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